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Assuming speed to turn in point is fixed and that you can trail brake you need to go from speed down straight to speed at Apex
Option 1 brake less hard and longer = slower
Option 2 brake harder less distance = can brake Later = faster
Harder braking = more wear
BPS overlap mine versus the pro I hired to help setup my car who has imsa cayman and PWC cup seats was identical (as was everything but my slow crap upshifting) so I'm missing how I can use less brakes by technique?
I can use less by cooling front more or getting more rear bias through pad / Rotor combos for sure - less brake use would be slower lap time
For me it was simple, just use less pressure and carry more corner speed. I realized at some point I just didn't need to slow the car as much as I thought I did. I was braking in the same place, just not as hard as I used to. I have also upgraded my master and booster to the GT3 stuff per PCA rules. This also helped in modulating the pressure better.
To me, the beginning braking point in relation to the apex of a given corner doesn't change based on speed (ie 'late braking'). To me, its the modulation and how you use it that changes with speed. I rarely adjust my break points. I constantly adjust my modulation.
My experience with Pro's in SPB's is hit and miss. I find that they can go fast, but not always understand the handling traits of the chassis changes how they drive. I have had a named Pro tell me he would not carry the corner speed I do at 17 at Sebring as he though it was 'out of control'. But yet all the front running SPB's will drive the corner the same when pushing hard. I have been told the same by Pro's who have tried to beat my lap record at WGI, that they are just not willing to allow the car to dance as much as it appears they need to. My point is, Pro doesnt always mean they will be fast in your car right off the bat, or exhibit the right technique and speed.
Well you should 100% come out to west coast and race with us, would like to learn some more on this platform.
The pro ran a 4/10s lap faster than the one above, and the one above is over 1 second faster than any other SPB driver has turned on that track
Just watched you video. I don't see corners any worse than what we run on the east coast (man that is a wacky track! Which track is it?).
Kelion Kasler was a friend of mine and he constantly tried to get me to the west coast to race. Unfortunately, there is enough on the east coast to keep us busy and just enough time to get there and back.
Here is Lime Rock in April this year. Lap 4 I break the lap record. Small 1.2 mile track with lots of braking in to 1 (big bend), 5 (uphill) and 6 (west bend). This is a good video that shows how I am braking the car.
Just watched you video. I don't see corners any worse than what we run on the east coast (man that is a wacky track! Which track is it?).
Kelion Kasler was a friend of mine and he constantly tried to get me to the west coast to race. Unfortunately, there is enough on the east coast to keep us busy and just enough time to get there and back.
Here is Lime Rock in April this year. Lap 4 I break the lap record. Small 1.2 mile track with lots of braking in to 1 (big bend), 5 (uphill) and 6 (west bend). This is a good video that shows how I am braking the car.
Nice lap
Track is Buttonwillow 13CW - I hold the record there
Lime rock if I were driving SPB there would use maximum BPS only at T1 rest isn't required and when I irace there I only use max into 1 and trail brake into the sweeper to rotate I imagine you are only even touching the brakes at all in 3 or max 4 places - I could use a set of brakes for a season there - look at the amount of braking required to get around BW - you are using tons more braking (and more importantly more frequently so the rotors aren't cooling) as there is an order of magnitude more corners so don't really consider that an apples to apples comparison
Think east coast tracks generally are more flow and less large speed deltas
At Fontana we go from 135 down to 40
Laguna 115 to 35
Sonoma 115 to 30ish
It's very hard on braking systems and all the fast SPB data I have seen always includes a few corners at maximal braking force which incurs maximal brake pad wear - always like to be proven wrong and learn new stuff but on this one I'm 99% certain
Track is Buttonwillow 13CW - I hold the record there
Lime rock if I were driving SPB there would use maximum BPS only at T1 rest isn't required and when I irace there I only use max into 1 and trail brake into the sweeper to rotate I imagine you are only even touching the brakes at all in 3 or max 4 places - I could use a set of brakes for a season there - look at the amount of braking required to get around BW - you are using tons more braking (and more importantly more frequently so the rotors aren't cooling) as there is an order of magnitude more corners so don't really consider that an apples to apples comparison
Think east coast tracks generally are more flow and less large speed deltas
At Fontana we go from 135 down to 40
Laguna 115 to 35
Sonoma 115 to 30ish
It's very hard on braking systems and all the fast SPB data I have seen always includes a few corners at maximal braking force which incurs maximal brake pad wear - always like to be proven wrong and learn new stuff but on this one I'm 99% certain
Didn't know Kelion but heard he was a great guy
Actually, braking at uphill and West bend spike higher than Big bend, but only for a split second. I posted the video more about turn 1 than anything else as turn 1 is very typical of corners on the east coast. I could use a set of brakes there for two seasons if I went there a lot. We only go there once a year.
Turns like you reference are all over the east coast. Hotel turn at Sebring, End of the back straight at Road Atlanta. Every corner after a straight at Road America. Turn 5 at Mosport just to name a few. All of these corners are 115+ in a SPB to 30-50 mph (depending on car and technique). Sebring is probably the closest to what you speak of. Lots of speed with slow corners joining parts of it together.
I guess my point in all of this is, using lots of pads and rotors is normal when you begin to race. Just because you get good results doesn't mean there is room to improve. I won my first 4 races and set a new lap record on my second event. But I was still using brakes like they where candy. Now, I go faster than I ever did, but use much less of the brakes than I did before.
People had tried to tell me this would happen and I didn't believe them. Then it happened. Now I believe them
Not sure what to tell ya - my results say I'm doing it right, are you using custom brake ducting or something? I just have cup control arm air guides
My feel tells me my front brakes are doing the lion share of work - used two sets of rear pads on 22 days on the car this season
I'll kill a set of black fronts in 2-3 race weekends depending on track
The tracks you run require big braking zones? We have a few 110+ down to 30 turns out here
Every track out here has at least two turns where I'm maxed out on BPS for a bit
Some good points have been made throughout the thread. One question to add though.. Do your "race weekends" include an enduro? Keep in mind Matt M does not do enduros. A 90min race added to a weekend makes a pretty big difference in pad life. I switched from using pagid yellows all around to PFC 08 front 06 rear and was very happy with the PFC's. Much longer life and still good feel/initial bite.
Have you tried a more aggressive rear pad? Maybe give pagid blacks a try in the rear and stick with your yellows up front if you are happy with them. I would think orange rear would only make your front bias problem even worse, no?
Some good points have been made throughout the thread. One question to add though.. Do your "race weekends" include an enduro? Keep in mind Matt M does not do enduros. A 90min race added to a weekend makes a pretty big difference in pad life. I switched from using pagid yellows all around to PFC 08 front 06 rear and was very happy with the PFC's. Much longer life and still good feel/initial bite.
Have you tried a more aggressive rear pad? Maybe give pagid blacks a try in the rear and stick with your yellows up front if you are happy with them. I would think orange rear would only make your front bias problem even worse, no?
fWIW. PFC quit making the 06 compound a while back. It now is either 11, 08 or 19 ( available in the 0738 pad shape).
Happy New Year
12-27-2016, 11:10 AM
