toddlamb

We've gone far down this path with Spec Miata. We now rebuild transmissions for $1200, and the parts are a fraction of the cost of Porsche parts. They still don't last as long as a junkyard SPB tranny due to weak gears and over grippy tires.

Not sure we'd want to get into $1200 transmissions let alone $3500 rebuilt transmissions. I'm pretty happy carrying a $850 spare trans in the trailer for each car.

FeuerRacing

The broken transmission concern is why I pay for track support as I can do everything myself. I suppose I just need to get comfortable changing them.

But keep your mouth shut on my transmission change to find 0.5 secs on the straight.

toddlamb

I won't tell a soul! lol

ace37

Got a few questions about removing parts and they may just be a matter of interpreting the rules:

1. I suspect this could be interpreted to be "interior," but I wasn't sure. Can I gut the left and right side mirror electronics and motors? And is there any recommended off the shelf lightweight manual system to mount the mirrors to?

2. Which spot welded pieces can be removed from the floor? Thinking of the seat mount floor pieces and a few little metal brackets, the little one behind the e brake and the piece tacked on in the passenger footwell near the passenger's right foot. I assume at least taller drivers would be allowed to drop their seats if necessary but I don't see it in the rules. Not planning to touch these now but perhaps when the cage goes in.

3. Does 7A, "Factory dashboard instrument pod must remain intact," mean the instrument panel must remain intact or that the dashboard has to remain intact and the instrument pod has to be there too? I would expect this to mean the same thing as "the instrument pod on the factory dashboard must remain intact" the way it's written. I don't see any cars with custom dashboards though so I assume there's a word missing and it should read something like "Factory dashboard and instrument pod must remain intact." But if I can do a custom dash I'd like to explore it.

bkovac

I have the seat frame removed to lower the seat. I would do that 1st and mock my seat. The reason is is that the left side of your seat may hit the driver side impact tubing. I have witnessed this with others when they perform this after the fact. i'm only 6' but i now have over 6" of head room.

toddlamb

You can remove the mirror wiring but the rest should remain.

No need to remove anything from the floor and it isn't allowed in the rules (despite some arguments for safety allowing any modification). I'm 6'3" and have plenty of headroom without removing floor mounts.

The IP/dash/gauges should remain in place. You can mount something like an AIM dash (we sell mounts) directly in front of the gauge cluster if desired, but you don't need a custom dash.

Focus on what's needed to be competitive, and more often than not it's the driver, not the car, that needs special parts

ace37

Thanks guys! Right now part of what I'm trying to do is just learn how racers interpret these rules so I can properly interpret when I'm still not clear after reading them a few times and googling a bit.
Yeah, I had googled a bit and it appeared some people remove them and others leave them. While I wasn't expecting it to be unconditionally legal I also didn't think it a big deal and figured waivers should be easy to get if that's how it was done. Tall guys, grandfathered cars from those guys, roll cage issues, etc. I expected the floor would need to be modified to some degree to accept a race seat regardless, so I figured this was an area to just ask what's the norm.

The seat hitting the cage is an interesting point. I'll definitely do a test fit. It's looking like I'll have my seat before the cage so I should be able to avoid the issue. I'm 6'1" so I should be able to find enough headroom with the frame in place. I understand wanting to maximize it though.

The mirrors seemed a bit opaque to me so I wanted to hear what others were doing and just do that - if everyone guts them great and if they are left alone that's great too. Not sure there's any weight savings to be had but it's easy to ask when I'm taking things apart. I'll just leave them.

And on the floor, it sounds like that's why it was happening - safety arguments. Not sure I agree with it in the general case but I could see a lot of valid exceptions and it really wouldn't impact the racing. But that helps me understand what I've been observing and make sense of it. At this point I don't expect to pull them when the cage goes in as I should be able to get enough headroom with them in place. It might attract scrutiny and I don't see much advantage - the floor is a good place for ballast anyway.

What you're saying on the dash is what I was concluding from looking at photos of built cars while reading the rules. I think the wording in the rules is a bit poor regarding the dashboard itself but quite clear elsewhere. I didn't think a custom dash would save any weight but thought it might be an easy project and look nice in the car. Since everyone is doing it the same way though, maybe I'm the only one reading the rules that way. In the long run I was thinking to put in a nice AIM system over the instrument panel like others have done but I've got a lot of fundamentals I need to get worked out first. Like spec suspension and a cage.

I wasn't expecting any meaningful competitive advantage could be gained from these fairly trivial things - I'm just having fun in the garage building a race car. But I figure if I'm taking things out and fiddling with it I may as well do it all right the first time. And if the next guy has the same questions he can find this thread using google.
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I also didn't see it explicitly, but I've assumed the windshield washer assembly falls under the interior or trunk rules and is fair game to remove so I was going to pull that at some point.


Thanks for the explanations! I'm enjoying my little Boxster race car project and looking forward to joining the class.

Gary R.

Now I know where to go begging if mine blows up again!

Gary R.

How are you going to wash your windshield during a race??

tgsmith4845

Checking with Mark and Brad now. Brad's busy working the big leagues now, and Mark with his Cayman build. Will see what the status is on trans strengthening.

ace37

As a new builder I would recommend rules clarifications on:

1. Radiator Fan Removal - Recommend rule 2G be changed to make fan removal legal since it seems to be accepted and common practice.
2. Floor Seat Support Bracket Removal (spot welded to floor) - If illegal, clarify in rule 7B and consider offering waivers as this is hard to reverse and may be reasonable in some cases such as for very tall drivers.
3. Rear Metal Bumper Removal - Clarify wording to make it clear that if the factory metal bumper is removed, a steel beam either must or may optionally replace it. I assume right now some run without them and feel it's justified and others feel a beam must be in the car to stay legal. Note that regardless, because the steel reinforcement is not presently defined, nearly any piece of steel could in theory meet the present rule.
4. Dashboard Removal - The present wording left Lemming and I thinking the dash can be removed. Most cars keep them. If the intent of the rules is to require racers to keep them, this should be reworded. Right now "factory dashboard instrument pod" leaves dashboard acting as an adjective clarifying the location of the instrument pod, so I read it to say I need the factory instrument pod = factory gauge cluster and essentially nothing else. This was my honest first read, not an intentionally creative interpretation.
5. Washer System - For completeness I'd like to see the windshield washer system removal explicitly permitted as part of the wiper removal rule 6J. It's easy to assume, but the present rule does not allow it.
6. Removing Bolted Assemblies from Front and Rear Trunks - I was not able to find anything about removal of the carpet, insulation, and bolted assemblies from the trunks in the rules. This includes pieces like the plastic battery cover, the rear trunk stereo amplifier, and so forth. It is done by all and is expected. It may be worth defining the area covered by the front and rear trunks as part of the interior under rule 7B.
7. Engine Cover - Consider explicitly allowing and recommending use of the Cayman metal engine cover under rule 7I. I don't have time to grab the part number or I'd include it here.

968workaholic

The floor seat bracket removal is allowed under the appendix for using a FIA seat without a back brace and being further than 3 inches from the firewall.

Without the factory dash in place, or something similar, the interior looks un - finished imo. It really doesn't weigh that much anyway

The Cayman engine cover would add cost to the build, and it is lighter as well

The front and rear trunks are considered part of the interior imo

As for the washer system, that should be include that it can be removed

The rear bumper and radiator fans are a gray area indeed, something to bring up when the mid year rule proposal changes come around.

audipwr1

I cut out my seat rails - my car was heavily scrutinized multiple times and no PCA tech had an issue - tall people need the space

Streak

Blah blah blah

toddlamb

This thread is for Spec Boxster racers only!