friscocayman

Do we have any idea where the 255/17s are going to be priced? I'm curious to see if it would be less $ than new RA1s plus shaving.

Anyone know the price differential for the 944 or Miata guys?

jittsl

I am a mid pack runner (on a good day) so nth degree of performance is largely irrelevant to me. I suspect that I would find no difference whatsoever between a manufactured or a shaved tire of x depth. No I don't see a benefit. And I will repeat that since we all suffer together under the current rules what difference does change make?

Now let's talk about full depth tires for rain. As it stands now I carry a new unshaved set of RA1s as my rain tires. If it rains they get put to use and if it is like most rainey weekends the tires are used in various conditions from full rain to a semi dry track. At the end of the weekend these same tires will now become a spare set of warm-up and practice tires and be replaced as rains because they will have lost the tread which made them my rain tires in the first place. If however we run a unique rain tire and a unique dry tire I will no longer have this option.

Why (other than your stated belief that your shaver isn't doing as good a job as he could and the implication that this is somehow causing you to be a disadvantage when compared to other racers - which I've got to admit I find hard to fathom) do you support the change? To me it's a case of nothing's broken and so why am I fixing it?

Laurie

Paul 996

Folks,

Toyo has made a RA1 equivalent tire in the RR that is molded to 4/32 so that RA1 based spec classes can purchase a tire that they can use right off the shelf.

The costs based on what Spec Miata, Spec E30 and Spec 944 guys state is that an RR costs the same as a RA1 plus shaving. Are there people who will still take an RR and shave it down to 2/32, unfortunately yes.

As to availability: My understanding is that the SPB sizes will be available to the public before the end of this calendar year.

We as a group of SPB racers can either take advantage of the RR or not. Use your voices and let PCA know what you think and why.

Streak

I can find no info that says the RR is the same as the RA1. The TW of 40 vs 100 is concerning. Is that a function of the starting depth or a different compound? Toyo's own website had a lower treadwear rating (4 vs 5 stars). Sounds to me like the tire just won't last as long. There are also a number reports of failures from a while ago. Has toyo effectively fixed that issue?

BTW, as far as shaving RA1's I order from Woodman tires and they order them direct from Toyo shaved. Toyo uses a machine so they come out the same everytime.

Paul 996

Laurie,

No one is saying that you couldn't take your used up full thread "rain" RA1 and shave it.

The data suggests that a shaved RA1 to 4/32 is slightly less competitive than than an RR. If as you state you are a mid pack runner and would not find a difference in performance then there should be no impact to you.

What am I missing?

jdistefa

I think we should move to slicks, remote reservoir shocks, adjustable LSDs, and custom headers.

Doug007

Just MHO, but I think it's crazy to consider changing to a tire that is not currently available. There were a few issues with availability early in 2013 for the miata sizes.

Imagine what happens when there is a delay in manufacturing the RR in the SPB sizes and the first race weekend of the year is approaching...

Seems like it would be prudent to wait another year until tires are widely available and people have had a chance to test drive them before mandating them as the spec tire.

Blitz128

I'll stir the kettle.... BFG R1's are available and similar priced, no shaving needed the Spec tire for SP996... good tire with decent HC performance... open the rule to Toyo RA1, RR and BFG R1.... the kettle may have just boiled over... :>)

multi21

944 Spec racer with experience in the RR as we've been "testing them" as early as 2012 and became official spec tire 1/1/13.

Cost: pretty much equal to RA1

Longevity: less than RA1. After 9-10 heat cycles they are toast. The beauty of the RA1 is that you could run them down to the cords and they wouldn't lose much speed. Not true with RR as they can heat cycle out with plenty of meat on them.

Feel: pretty similar, but need to get used to them if you've been running the RA1 as turn in is quite different

set up: need more negative camber to get them to work properly as compared to RA1.

Concerns: directional with tread separation early on and some signs of it now, but less so. Cannot swap tires at track like you can with RA1s.

My overall opinion: We didn't need to change from the RA1 as I too would use a set of full tread tires on a rain weekend and then used those after they've been worn down like a set of shaved. It defeats the purpose of a cost control spec tire and spirit of the class. The fact that you can't swap onto any corner like the RA1 is very disappointing.

WISH NITTO NT01 would be the spec tires. Nitto also owned by Toyo.

jittsl

What you're missing is that now you have 2 spec tires for the class, which is exactly what I was afraid you would tell me. Apparently I can run EITHER RA1s OR RRs. Is that correct? WHY???? You know that the next thing that will happen is that myths will develop that RRs are better at "x" track and that RA1s will be better at "y" and next thing you know we'll all own 6 sets of tires in a desperate attempt to remain competitive. And all of this complexity and cost for a very minor (if any) improvement in performance just so TOYO can provide less rubber for more money.

I'll do whatever the powers tell me i have to but at this stage i'm still wondering - What am I missing?

Streak

What he's saying is the same as Pete indicated. The same wet and dry tire is more cost effective than maintaining two distinct sets of tires. Now, rather than toss a good set of RA1's because they are too worn for rain, we can keep running them. If we change to RR then The above scenarios no longer work. We either run the worn RA1 and give up .5 seconds to everyone in the field or spend $$$ on a set of tires every weekend.

If the real life longevity is <10 heat cycles that's one weekend. That's why I left the stock class/Hoosier world.

Right now I'm getting nearly a whole season on one set of tires and I have yet to cord one.

multi21

I'm not familiar with SPB, but in the 944 spec classes if you want to be competitive in the dry, you better be on the RR because the time delta is appx. 2-3 seconds per lap depending on the track.

jdistefa

I'm hoping to have a collection of tires and wheels that's worth more than my car.

Paul 996

No one is trying to force anything on anyone here. That is exactly why this is a proposal for change which is out for comment from the SPB community.

jittsl

If this is true for SPB as well then I now know what I have been missing. This is all about making us faster and has nothing to do with cost savings safety or vehicle longevity. I guess we might as well go for remote reservoir shocks, limited slips etc. why not add in a new rule that allows 3.8 liter motors?

There has been very little said so far that convinces me that we will get better, closer or more equal racing by making this change and it is pretty clear that RRs aren't going to be cheaper (and may be very much more expensive - this year i have been running more like 30 cycles) so I hope a lot of thought is given to the change before its accepted.