Zeus993

There's something I just can't get by head around up here in Canada. Every Gen 2 981 Spyder that is currently on the used marketing is being offered in the range of $134,500 - $139,900 CND ($101,695 - 105,778 USD) which is significantly over MRSP.

When the Gen 2 Spyder came out, with MRSP in the range of $105 - $110K, the Gen 1 987.2 Spyders were selling in the range of $65K. So OK. That delta makes sense, the Gen 2 981 having the larger engine etc...

But what is going to happen when the Gen 3 982 Spyder comes out (and we all know it will)? How are they going to price it? ABOVE what the used Gen 2's are selling for? Then means then a $150 + starting price for a Gen 3.

Furthermore, if one bought one of the used Gen 2's here, let's say for $135K CND, then what will happen on trade in if the Gen 3 comes in lower?

And you know what this means for the Gen 1? It continues it's run as the best bang for your buck Spyder!

Crazy. Thoughts anyone?

tq.3z

Given how rare they are - if they are different enough (let's say the new one turbo 4) then they will probably all maintain values fairly close to MSRP. The 987.1 dipped in value far more than I ever expected and I think a lot of the sellers who allowed them to go for those prices probably regret it now.

The bottom line is it is a very special car, in VERY limited production - potential buyers can't expect prices to decrease much. It's part of the old adage "Gotta pay to play" - and in this market, prices are going to stay high for the foreseeable future IMO. Which they should I think.

Suicide Jockey

I'll play, Joel. Here's my crystal balling on next-gen Spyder 982 pricing - - all highly scientific, computed using my trusty Texas Instruments calculator from high school, and cleaning lady verified.

$61,800 was the base MSRP on the 987 Spyder, right?

$82,100 was the base MSRP on the 981 Spyder.

That's a roughly 33% price increase from one gen to the next if my math (and trusty TI) is right.

Based on this, I'm guessing a similar price increase of roughly 33% on the next gen Spyder, thus putting its base price around $110,000.

$97,132 is the average MSRP of North American Spyders according to the Spyder Database, which means on average the typical 981 buyer added approx. $15,000 in options to the base price of $82,100 MSRP.

Assuming buyers of the next-gen Spyder have similar option-buying tendencies, and assuming option prices have also risen 33% by the time the new car is introduced, that would put the MSRP of the new car at $129,950 with average options of $19,950 per car.

While current 981 Spyders are selling for above MSRP, I don't know of any that are priced at $129,000 or above (PTS cars may be an exception, I don't know). Plus, I don't know that Porsche ever looks at current resale prices of previous-gen cars at the time a new-gen car is introduced to determine pricing of the new car - - I think pricing of new cars is based on a number of other different factors. But even assuming so, the next-gen Spyders will be much higher in price than then-current 981 Spyder resale values. That is, unless the next gen Spyder is turbocharged, in which case all bets are off as 981 Spyder prices could go through the roof.

As indicated above, I can't imagine the 982 being priced less than whatever the trade-in value is of used 981's at the time, unless, again, 981 prices explode when/if we learn the 982 is turbo-charged (you know I'm still firmly in the N/A camp on the next car).

Agreed. 987 cars are so underpriced IMO for reasons which I can't explain. If there still is some lingering stigma surrounding the top, we should be way past that by now. At some point the market is going to wake up and 987 resale prices will get the generous bump they rightfully deserve.

Dicknose

I was about to post and say that in Australia you can't even get a 2nd hand Spyder, none have been for sale in the last 6 months.
Just checked and wow, one is for sale. It's at 269k, was probably around 190k new. So that's a huge 40% mark up.
(These are Aussie dollars and we have high taxes on these cars, don't compare to US or Canadian prices or you will cry for us)
Now of cause that is asking price from a dealer. It still it's a sign of how rare they are and what the dealer thinks they can ask and sell it for.

Milehigh981

How many Spyders were sent to Australia?
We just got back from Sydney/Port Douglas, was surprised to not see many Porsche's on the road. A few Panny's, one Cayman one or two Cayennes.

Zeus993

Nick! You and your TI make a great pair. I like your math. I now need to look into what Canadian base Spyders MRSP were and project ahead. I still think the market up here is inflated and they don't see to be selling. One 981 Spyder recently dropping in price.

And the Aussie market for these? Even crazier!

I'll report back... but in the meantime thanks for the math and the 33% factor.

UPDATE ON CND PRICING:

987.2 Gen 1 Spyder (base): $72,900

981 Gen 2 Spyder (base): $,93,700 = 28.5% increase over Gen 1 (questionable accuracy due to lack of Nick's TI and cleaning lady verification)

982 Gen 3 Spyder (base): $120,405 (projected 28.5% increase over Gen 2).

So if my math is correct, it still shows the current Gen 2 selling for more than the incoming Gen 3. Yeesh!

Of worthwhile mention: I did see the first price drop in one car just this last week (summer solstice?), from $139,395 to $136,395. That's the first softening I've seen in the market.

john weires

Good analysis by people in the above posts.

One thing not mentioned is the very different economic conditions that were in place during the 987.2 Spyder first couple of years on the market and where they are now for the 981 and any future Spyder.

In the US the economy still has a long ways to go but it has slowly improved over the last 5-6 years. This is one of the reasons Porsche felt they could justify a 33% increase in the msrp of the 981 over the 987.2. The poor economy back in 2011-2013 may have stunted the resale growth on 987.2's with some owners prematurely having to sell due to the own finances.

I am not sure I expect 981's to continue to sell over msrp for very long unless they are extraordinarily low mileage specimens with all the right options.
I would not be shocked to see a slow leak in pricing on "ordinary" 981's down to some point where it stabilizes.

As for 987.2's (I own a 2011 Spyder) I expect (hope) very low mileage cars with manual and LWB's to continue to hover in the mid 60k region.

jeanrabelais

GT4 $ales and press overshadowed the 981 Spyder. There was no cap so GT4 production blew up while the 981 Spyder's production seemed to be at a slow burn and paled in comparison but I feel that the slow burn may win in the end. The much dreamed of synthesis of the 911's 3.8 in the Boxster's platform combined with the lower production numbers seems magical to me lol and I think the slow burn may win in the end if this is a contest with winners and losers which I don't think it is. If you love your car, then who cares what it's worth. As far as I can read, everyone who's driven the cars is a fan.

Dicknose

I've heard it's only 25 Spyders in Australia.
The GT4s were rumored to be less than 50, but that kept increasing and pretty much opened into fill all orders. Something more like 200 came down under. So a lot more GT4s than Spyders. And it's a better car in some ways, certainly better press and a GT name. But not as exclusive and seems quite a few being turned over for a profit. I can see 10-15 for sale at any given time. Spyders, only seen 2 in over a year.

jeanrabelais

Sounds like eventually there will be an international market for the Spyder if what you say is true.

JPMD

all great points

Agree a major factor at least at the time of launch 987 vs 981 Spyder was economy

The 981 became a much more usable car given the top (essentially standard but without power), 3.8L engine and Porsche's the movement away from the bare bones approach that made it OK to load them up with allot of comfort features, higher end stereo and there is understanding that the sofas are acceptable and buckets not a must have. These factors have made the 981 wanted by more people and the low number production has helped with its excellent retail value.

Not sure what the future will do to prices but as a 987 owner I'm hoping that the original will always be viewed as the Spyder to have. What will help it retain its place in Porsche car history will be the future Spyders getting heavier, more expensive and further away from the original concept. The 981 Spyder is great an I considered getting one but love the fact that the 987 is impracticable, light, great steering & gearing even down to the point that the flaps on the tent top are first and foremost functional then add to the beautiful lines rather than getting tacked on just to achieve the Spyder look

Agree the the next Spyder will be more expensive by 10-20K and most likely loaded with more options and fluff which will only help the original. N/A vs Turbo that will be very interesting to see how that goes.

mile2424

I highly doubt it will jump that high again. The 20k jump from 987 to 981 seemed a little absurd.

Dicknose

If your car is selling 2nd hand at above retail price, then you underpriced it in the first place!
Next GT4 might go a bit more up market (closer to GT3), but I doubt they will push the Spyder up much. It might be more a case of run the production a bit longer.
I think the Spyder went under the radar because of the huge fan fare for the GT4. If the engines are different then they might not release them so close together.

Suicide Jockey

You could be right, John, but one could make a case for 981 prices staying above MSRP and even rising. Simple matter of supply and demand. Very few cars made. Drop dead looks. Reliable as dirt with a proven engine and none of the mechanical issues that have plagued some recent P-cars. As Andrew notes below, the Spyder was completely overshadowed by the GT4 which garnered more favorable automotive press than any car in recent memory (deservedly so). Lost on many back then were the similarities between the Spyder and GT4, not to mention the fact that the Spyder is perhaps the better road car (which is where most people drive their cars). The Spyder never got its due. It languished in obscurity compared to the GT4. People are now waking up to the fact that the Spyder is not just some "GT4 lite." Power, brakes, lightweight, and sound combine for an intoxicating cocktail. It's an unparalleled visceral driving experience with the top down - - something the hard top GT4 will never be able to match.

Truth.

I'm embellishing a little on your comment here, JP, but this notion that the 981 has somehow morphed from the spartan 987 into a lux-laden, almost cushy GT has always perplexed me. The only "comfort feature," if you can even call it that, that the 981 has over the 987 is with respect to the roof. Even there, the 981 roof is still a manual affair. And yes, the 981 does have a more modern interior, as you would normally expect from a next-gen car, but that is in appearance alone. What extra "comfort features" does it really have when compared to the 987? They both have AC. They both have a radio. They both have heaters. Not sure exactly how the 981 is any less purposeful or in possession of more creature comforts.

No need to worry, JP! As you say, the 987 will always be THE original Spyder and with that crazy-cool top which Porsche is not likely to repeat anytime soon (much to my dismay) the car's uniqueness is firmly cemented. Prices can only go up IMO. Hang on to yours and enjoy the ride all the way to the bank

It's funny. I look at it just the opposite. I can't understand why only $20K separates the base price of the 987 and 981 Spyders. Think about what that $20K gets you:

-the engine from the Carrera S
-the engine shared with the GT4
-the brakes and rotors from the Carrera S
-the power steering rack from the 911 Turbo
-great performance options that come standard on the 981, which normally are a pricey a la carte affair (i.e., PTV, sport exhaust, sport chrono, et. al)

And keep in mind that despite the bigger engine, despite the bigger brakes, despite a redesigned/heavier roof to make for greater ease of operation, the 981 is only 88 lbs heavier than the 987. That's quite an accomplishment. They dropped the weight-to-power ratio from 8.77 lbs/bhp on the 987 to 7.7 lbs/bhp on the 981 while adding all these amazing features that improve performance. While the 987 is much heralded for the extreme measures Porsche adopted to shave pounds, I think the addition of only 88 lbs to the 981 is an equally noteworthy accomplishment that everyone overlooks.

When you factor in all you get for that $20K, not to mention the added tech and myriad improvements the 981 has over the 987 simply because of the 5 years that separates the cars, I don't see how anyone can conclude that the price differential between the 987 and the 981 is out of line. If anything, what's hard to believe is how small the price spread is.

If it is widely accepted and acknowledged that Porsche totally under priced the GT4, then how could one come to the conclusion the Spyder was overpriced when it shares so much with the GT4 and was made in far fewer numbers than the GT4, thus making it far more exclusive?

As mentioned below, the fact that the Spyder is selling for over MSRP a year and a half after going on sale is perhaps the best indication that Porsche left money on the table when pricing the 981.

Bingo.

Zeus993

Great points of discussion guys. Damn you all! This now has me looking at a nice Gen 2 Spyder here in town. Test drove it yesterday.