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Howdy all,
Well, my 90 964 has started leaking oil at the base of the cylinders. I addressed some former leaks, eg timing chain covers, valve covers, etc. I'm not the best at turning a wrench, so I'm putting my car in more capable hands. The oil leaks leave 50 cent size drops from several places on the driver's side. It also appears that oil is blowing back. I know this after power washing the underside of the engine.
I've got three quotes for the job which ranged from $4900 to $5600. I will say the more expensive quote goes on to replace a lot more than just doing the cylinders, eg RMS etc. While talking to these 3 mechanics, each on of them called it a reseal. However, not all of them covered the same items to be resealed.
My questions is, "How far off am I from just having a top end job done vs. a "reseal"? I'm wondering, because if the ceramic pots need replacing, or valves, or XXX needs replacing, what I'm I looking at in terms of cost vs the above quotes?
I'm posting a couple of pics which show the cylinder leaks.
I don't think I would go to that expense and not get a top end rebuild with good valve job. If your engine is otherwise healthy, a top end rebuild / reseal with good valve job is only a few thousand more than your high quote and you'll have peace of mind and the confidence of a fresh engine. Of course the slope is slippery and you can easily triple your highest quote in a hurry.
Have to agree with Lee here. No sense in pulling it apart if you're not going to at least do a top end rebuild along with the reseal. That should be in the 8-10k range. If your cylinders are worn, add 5k for parts and associated labor. The milage and leakdown of the motor would determine the best approach for me. If its a 6 figure odo and I planned on keeping the car a while, I'd say just "go for it" and have something built that you can put another 100k on.
I had the same thought process as TJ - mine had 160K miles and am hoping to keep it for another 100K miles - so I ended up going the distance - the slippery slope is NOT that steep once you've already committed to the big job. If I went with a reseal, it would have been a MUCH more rude awakening, or I would be spending more in a year or two repeating it and doing everything - worn clutch, new flywheel due to missing teeth, cracked head studs, adding gaskets to the cylinders, etc etc.
I had the same thought process as TJ - mine had 160K miles and am hoping to keep it for another 100K miles - so I ended up going the distance - the slippery slope is NOT that steep once you've already committed to the big job. If I went with a reseal, it would have been a MUCH more rude awakening, or I would be spending more in a year or two repeating it and doing everything - worn clutch, new flywheel due to missing teeth, cracked head studs, adding gaskets to the cylinders, etc etc.
Before you decided to rebuild, were you leaning toward reseal and topend?
I'm in the middle of a DIY reseal on my 1990 964. Based on my experience it's a binary decision. You either do nothing (a valid option) or you subconsciously commit to fixing all of the things you will likely find on the way in there which will very possibly cost a lot more than you are expecting.
Before you decided to rebuild, were you leaning toward reseal and topend?
I was definitely leaning towards a reseal. If I had the time - I would have tried that first on my own. I've known my mechanic for years and we had a long discussion - yeah, the rebuild cost was 3-4x the reseal, but personally, for the miles on my car and the leaks, I didn't want to spend a couple thousand on a reseal and THEN a lot more a year or two later to "do it right" - also, my engine was having more problems then just leaking - stalling, idle, hesitation, and poor compression out of a couple of cylinders. There were a few issues that we corrected "while in there". Hey, I'm cheap by nature and I wasn't happy about doing it, and contemplated selling it, but then thought better of it and went ahead - it's only been a couple of days, but I'm glad I did it! I also now have a 2 year warranty on the engine rebuild and the parts.
Thanks for the comments. If I go down the path of a top end rebuild, which will destroy my $5k budget, can anyone tell me if I have another option in terms of parts?
I know that Porsche valves are 3-6x the cost of TRW valves. Anyone have experience using anything other than Porsche brand valves, seats, etc? Porsche wants $151 per exhaust valve while TRW wants $23 per exhaust; additionally, Porsche intake valve = $327 per valve, TRW = $86. Valve guides and other miscellaneous parts also show huge differences in prices. These are quick quotes from Pelican Parts.
Do you notice the difference in performance with the new engine?
Still going through a little break-in period of easier driving and varying speeds etc - but already notice a huge difference in start-up, rev stability - idles perfectly, no idle surge, improved shifting feel, especially throttle response, shifting smoothness / speed with the new clutch and LWF.
Thanks for the comments. If I go down the path of a top end rebuild, which will destroy my $5k budget, can anyone tell me if I have another option in terms of parts?
I know that Porsche valves are 3-6x the cost of TRW valves. Anyone have experience using anything other than Porsche brand valves, seats, etc? Porsche wants $151 per exhaust valve while TRW wants $23 per exhaust; additionally, Porsche intake valve = $327 per valve, TRW = $86. Valve guides and other miscellaneous parts also show huge differences in prices. These are quick quotes from Pelican Parts.
TIA,
HB
I've never heard of someone spending $3,000 for valves that aren't going into a race engine. So to answer your question, there is either a much better source for Porsche valves than the one you a referencing, or most builders out there aren't using them.
But... there is really only one way to choose the "right" parts, and that is to let the person building the engine decide. You can get different quotes from different builders, each might have slightly differing opinions on what is an acceptable substitute. At the end of the day though, the person who has to stand behind their work is the one who gets to make that decision and until you chat with a few builders, you won't have a concrete answer.
But... there is really only one way to choose the "right" parts, and that is to let the person building the engine decide. You can get different quotes from different builders, each might have slightly differing opinions on what is an acceptable substitute. At the end of the day though, the person who has to stand behind their work is the one who gets to make that decision and until you chat with a few builders, you won't have a concrete answer.
Good points.
OP, this is a 27 year old car and there are almost certainly surprises awaiting whoever goes into the engine. You/they will have to make decisions, and each will have a current and future $ impact. While I don't believe the Porsche part prices are a reasonable quality/price ratio in all cases (try pricing a new crank pulley), if I was a mechanic and felt a customer was going to hold me to a very high standard I would go Porsche all day long and the bill would reflect that.
I would pick a mechanic who I trusted and I would become part of the process, making informed decisions and owning them through the build. Maybe it's a gross assumption, but it seems like $ are driving your thinking. That's fine with a younger import car, but an older Porsche is a different beast. I have the bills to prove it and I'm DIY all the way.
The beauty of these cars is that you're not dumping money into something that's worthless. I have friends that have spent just as much on motor builds as I have for everything from Mustangs to Subarus. Those cars are comparably worthless to a clean 964 with a newly motor and while those cars are depreciating, ours are at worst holding steady. Granted it's foolish to think you can predict the market, but it's at least how I justify writing the big checks.
05-29-2017, 09:06 PM
90 964 reseal?
