Ironman88

Anyone who has this engine might agree - it's not the most refined power plant in the world. I'm sure the more tech-astute here in the forum could (and I think may have) called out the reasons why it is - inherent imbalance of a 45-degree V6 configuration and who knows what else may contribute to it. The issue is baked into the design apparently.

Would it be possible to make it any better - perhaps by using a friction-reducing additive? Any improvement at all??

For me, the answer to that question was yes!

Smoother running. Perceptively improved initial throttle response. Certainly better.


One 300ml container treats 5L of oil. I only added one can of it. You could probably go with 1 1/2 cans in this engine.

I've had good success with Liqui Moly MOS2 in my air cooled 911. Ceratec thus far seems to be a worthwhile additive for the Cayenne.

chassis

Psychosomatic effect, unless you have seat track vibration, steering column vibration and acoustic data you wish to share.

90-degree V6 engines are inherently unbalanced and require a balance shaft/balancer assembly to partially reduce imbalance vibration.

The EA839 3.0T/2.9TT is a 90-degree block and uses a balance shaft.

Ironman88

Oh yes, I'll send my seat track vibration, steering column vibration, and acoustic data right over to you....



Try the product if you're curious. If not, fine with me.

Electric Lizard

Making the engine's internal parts slipperier won't alter the fact that two pistons are going one way while only one is going the other way each rev. (That's why my wife's GLE450 has an inline 6.) That said, I don't notice excessive or even moderate vibration in my Cayenne, so the Porsche engineers seem to have done the math.

Ironman88

Woofman

I recorded a video today showing the horrible vibration of the 3.0 liter V6 in my 2022 Cayenne at 19,222 miles. It's awful. (Just kidding.)

retom

I would be careful with these types of oil additives in modern engines. If they were so miraculous, oil manufacturers would use these ingredients in the production of their oils.

In addition, Porsche, like most other car manufacturers, does not recommend the use of these types of additives in their cars.

The same applies to various miraculous gasoline improvers.

Ironman88

Miraculous is not a word that I might use for such a product.

But, you bring up a good point about why the core ingredient is not found more commonly in engine lubricants. (Hexagonal Boron Nitride).

And it is true that Porsche does not recommend the use of oil additives in Porsches.

Hexagonal Boron Nitride use as a friction reducer is not new. There is legitimate science behind it and it is effective.

Not much reference to Ceratec here in the Cayenne forum. Lots of references to the use of it in the 911 (997) forum - and from some folks that I've known and trusted for advice on that forum for years.

In addition to the links below, there is also a product information sheet on Ceratec that is attached.

Reference links to Hexagonal Boron Nitride:

• https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/am5083232
• https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/boro...e/24508/259750
• https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/arti...p04741f/unauth
• https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/15/3/955

95_993

Ceratec is accepted and used by many of the earlier 955 Cayenne V8 folks due to "fear" of bore scoring.

retom

Ceratec is designed for older engines, especially those that use mineral oil.
I have serious doubts about using it in modern turbo engines filled with synthetic oil. Especially since it is not known what oil base (carrier of Hexagonal Boron Nitridecarrier) Ceratec is made of. If we have in our engine a very high class synthetic oil made of confirmed PAO base with esters, adding an oil additive made of a weaker base rather deteriorate the lubricating properties of our oil. Additionally Ceratec is an additive which, when heated and burned, is not one of the cleanest, therefore it should not be added to petrol engines with "eco" novelties and to gasoline engines with a three-way catalytic converters. That is probably also why car manufacturers do not recommend use of such oil additives.
I have also never encountered the use of Ceratec in high-performance engines, where every per mille of efficiency improvement is fought for.
Personally, I prefer to change the oil more often and use only the highest quality oil that meets the car manufacturer's standards.

Ironman88

I would be interested to know where you've gotten the information that Ceratec is designed for older engines, especially those that use mineral oil. What's your source for that information?

retom

I am stating this based on my almost 20 years of experience in motor sports, many available articles describing the advantages and disadvantages of Ceratec,and also based on the principle of its operation and the experiences of users of this oil additive.

I do not deny the advantages of Ceratec, although I am generally not a supporter of this type of "miraculous" oil or fuel additives, of which there are many on the market. Especially in modern engines built with small tolerances of components fit and packed with complex electronics.

Have you asked yourself why:
- many car manufacturers indicate in their owner's manuals that they do not recommend the use of this type of additive in their vehicles?
- reputable oil manufacturers do not use this type of additive in their products?
- Ceratec-type additives are not used in engines of high-performance cars, exposed to high overloads, including thermal overloads during races?
- you cannot find any information on what oil is the base oil (carrier) in Ceratec? It could be mineral oil, and in Porsche you have to add 0.5 liters of this agent to synthetic engine oil.

Ironman88

Information noted, but I wouldn't say convincing enough to offset the improvements that I'm experiencing with using the product.

kayjh

The base 3.0 L V6 has low end turbo lag and the 2.9L V6 is buzzy at an idle. It’s hard to know who thought it was a good idea to put VW engines in a Porsche and charge Porsche prices. At least for 2024 onward the Cayenne S has a Porsche/Bentley engine (V8).

As to the oil additive, I’m reminded of the blind drug studies where one group is given a placebo. Many feel a benefit from the treatment even though there is no drug in their dose. So, if your brain detects a difference with this product, what does it matter if it’s real or in your head? Just like the guy who took the placebo, you feel an improvement. That’s all that matters.

chassis

Don't let the Bentley folks know you are disparaging them...Flying Spur uses the glorious 2.9TTV6.

So we can all rest easy at last -- Porsche is using Bentley engines, after all!