larrygk

I've read dozens of the valuable posts on the topic. Leave components in car/remove them/various ways of "setting up the fluid"/etc/etc.

My situation is simple: the wing rises dead even on both sides and at a good pace. But it only rises 1" high max.
Bleeding, etc has not been done to my knowledge and the car has 89k on the clock.
I removed the wing. Not the components yet.
What approach would you use to get the system to rise to the proper factory height?

I don't think the components need repair. That's my educated guess.
Also a very slight dampness on right ram banjo fitting but I will replace the crush washer anyway.

TIA

vtec_

If you want the wing functionality..id go with the eRamm Kit

I personally am going fixed wing.

RennKit-Dave

we have electric wing systems that go up to 4.8” high. Much more here; https://rennkit.com/product-info/996turbo/

larrygk

thanks and eventually I'll go that way but the first iteration will be fixing the stock setup.

Lazurus

If for whatever reason you can't repair or adjust whatever you're trying to do and do not avail yourself of the "best" option offered by retrofitting Dave's "E-Ram fast and high(er) "option"?

There's a guy on E-Bay that for 20+ years has sold a "fixed wing solution" as a "cheap" yet effective answer to stock pieces as no longer moving components. Ebay User is SBRTampa

I wouldn't call it "optimal" but I would call it a "solution" for a 4" lift - if you don't want to spend a couple grand $.

larrygk

Yes I am aware of that alternative and thanks. As mentioned I want the first attempt to be fixing what I have. My question really given my explanation was the proper order and method to bleed as there are various alternatives posted.

Third-Reef

If you want your stock system to go full height you need to do the complete fill and bleed procedure. Just bleeding will not make it go full height. When doing it add the Lucas transmission stop leak to the refill fluid and it may buy you several more years. I did it twice, replaced the switches twice and finally gave up when the lad screw block in the actuator cracked. I put the E-Ram system in. All done messing with the spoiler, more time to drink beer and ride dirt bikes.

larrygk

Thanks.....yeah between the full shop manual and some of the posts here on RL, I am on to the next step. Components removed today. Will do it on the bench. I'll use either the 100% CHF 11S or a 50/50 of CHF and Lucas. My guess is this is a refresh not a repair as everything looks pretty good aside from the hieght of the rams.

Lazurus

I understand your situation and encourage your determination to merely refresh, what is mostly still working. If it's any consolation or encouragement. I successfully ( "I" means "with help" ) re-bled my once functional hydraulics no less than 4 or 5 times over 15+ years. As Third-Reef has just suggested the cause of them currently not raising fully to OEM height could well just be a "low" Pentosin situation. Given there seems to be no "uneven" deployment or one side "hanging up" up or down. If I've followed along correctly. A leaking banjo bolt is certainly at a stage where you can maintain and keep watchful eye on the system for quite some time as I was able.

The process to re-bleed has been outlined and even Porsche has their own "step-by-step" incl a schematic/pic of sorts. The entire assembly can simply be flipped onto the rear decklid upside down while the external electrical 12v is sourced to manipulate the wing once you get new fluid in, equalizing the rams, etc. Once you ever accomplish this properly, you will feel an enormous sense of accomplishment for having done so.

Do you have a literal "step by step" process or are you just ( forgive me ) winging it? If you don't have one. I can look for a no longer needed copy I once had.

Add: I've also used the 50/50 Lucas and CH11S combo and also a straight fill of Pentosin and can't pinpoint any "difference". I still had to repeat the re-bleeding process until no longer possible.

ADD: Apolgies. I must have missed that you have the shop manual and will do it on "the bench". My bad

Bernard IV

Yes just refill it and throw some stop leak in there if you want, it might buy you a few years. The seals in the rams are leaking and it drips out the bottom. In hindsight the stop leak doesn't really work in my opinion. I was able to cut my rams apart and replace the seals inside of them and it does work. I epoxied the rams back together. If you try this be careful because they are spring loaded and will shoot into your face when you pull out the C ring thing. You need to be pretty handy to pull it off.

Lazurus

Agree. Keeping the innards on life support, is surely not for the faint of heart. That said, I do have an old pal who can bang out a simple re-bleed in about an hour - done so many.

larrygk

Thanks and always enjoy your humor and puns. That was in fact my original question and post: What is the right order and sequence for bleeding and filling both pump and rams? I see several different methods posted so I was searching for best practices. At this point I can do it with tie wraps within the engine bay (tie wrap them upside down to bring air to the top of them to bleed), or easily get the setup on my bench with power supply, syringe, etc. The online shop manual starting on page 1524, is pretty confusing as far as the bleeding process. So yes a step by step to compare it to what I think should be done in proper order would be great.

In my mind sequence might be (in my case as my issue is described):
a) Set up pump on end with hose fittings on top, disconnect them, and fill the pump. My guess is it may be low on Pentosin.
b) Reconnect the lines
c) Connect +12v to the pump and see if that allows the rams to push out (much) more than the 1" that they are now.

If that doesn't solve it or only partially solves it, then the next thing is to bleed the rams

d) With the rams positioned upside down, slightly crack the ram hose fitting one at a time to let any air out and do that until you see fluid. Maybe the Right first (long hose), then the Left (short hose)
e) Once air is out, retighten.
f) Now reverse polarity to the pump to bring rams down. Then reverse polarity again to bring them up and see if that increases the distance to rams lift.
g) If not then disconnect then lines one by one at the pump and make sure it won't take any more Pentosin.
h) Rinse and repeat until "fixed"

I'm sort of doing this the way I would a brake bleed.

Comments?

PS- Yes I promise at some point I will buy the eRam! Just bought the car and being a hands on owner I like to learn what I can.

Lazurus

I'm sure your near nailing this on your own given your clear DIY skills and while I was not able to locate the one I have previously shared 100 times as it's literally a 15 step # by # process. I did find two rambling accounts to cut/paste. I haven't done a search for this topic in years and it's amazing how many DIY write-ups and even YT clips now exist.

Here's one ( all misspelling are the content of the original poster, who was a better tech than typist )

Removal/access of the unit -

First - take off the wing itself. This is really easy - just raise the wing (using car power) to access the metal cylinders that hold it up. If your wing will not raise enough, you may have to have a buddy pull it up on one side to get to the cylinders. I recommend using one or more towels between the car and the spoiler to be safe (no scratches, etc).

Once raised, you must use turn the cylinders about 3/4 a turn CLOCKWISE to release the wing. I used the magic tool, but I am almost possitive you could do this with your hand. The tool mkes it easier, since it is made to fit the curve of the cylinder and has a metal protrusion that fits into the hole to grip the cylinder. When you turn one side, that side pops off, the other is easier, and the wing is off. Looking at the struts after the wing is removed, they are easy to turn, so there is no worry about them not being oriented correctly later for re-attachment. Open the deck lid and move on, I would lower the struts at this time (using button in car). Now, cover the entire engine with 1 - 2 towels, to keep it clean, have a place to set stuff withour worry of it falling.

You must take down the large hard plastic piece that covers most of the inside of the deck lid. You DO NOT have to unbolt the fan from this unit - leave it in place. It is connected to the large plastic cover (shrowd) and can stay attached. Also, you do not have to unplu any of the wires (brake light, etc). If you want to - know yourself out, I did not.

On the right side (on my turbo) there was a air vent or tunnel that feeds air into the airfilter. This removes with 2 bolts at the (as it is open) top right side of the air tunnel, then it pops out of place on the back side. The same size bolt is used in about 8 places to hold the plastic cover/shroud in place, take them all out. Once these are all out, the entire assembly is loose. It is fit in tightly, but you can wiggle it and slide it down to access the pump (and rams) easier. Push it down 6-8 inches (sliding it flat against the deck lid, towards the engine). If it does not move, you have missed a bolt.

Once this is loose, change to the torque sockets and remove the rams. I suggest taking a picture so you know how the hydraulic line is oreinted coming into the ram (it connects at the bottom). Also, each is marked (L or R). Take note of where this mark is - so you put it back in the same position. It may only fit one way, but take note.

When the 3 torque bolts are removed, the ram pulls easily out of the decklid.
Just set it on the towels on the engine, or let it dangle for now. Remove the other ram, set it on the engine as well. In the top middle of the shrowd, above the fan, are 4 nuts (rounded cap looking nuts) that attach the cylinder/pump/oil ressiviour to the shrowd. Remove these 4 nuts, this will allow you to remove the pump. After the nuts are removed, pull the shrowd away from the decklid a little, and slide the pump out. You should be able to stand the pump up on its end on top of the towels covering the engine. It is a little tight, but there is plenty of room/ length on cables to allow for this. You want to put the end of the pump that has the hydraulic lines coming into it pointing up (with the pump itself in a verticle position resting on the towels). Take a picture of the end of the pump - noting the orientation of the lines, etc.

I did this by myself, so I did not have someone to hole the pump straight up, or the lines up, etc. It would be easier to have someone do this for you. What I did was use 2 zip ties for eac side of the pump. I used the middle, top 2 holes on the shrowd, and looped 1 zip tie through this hole and zipped it to make a big secure tie (big circle). I then attached a second zip tie to the pump and through the first ZIP tie. I repeated on the other side and tighted. This gives me 2 loops (connected like a chain) on each side the holds the pump straight up. I then put a second zip tie on each side (on the shrowd) to use later to hold up the lines.

To fill the unit, you are not going to remove the lines from the rams. The rams themselves do not hold much fluid (when down - not extened). Make sure that the rams are down - not extended!

You only have to remove the hydraulic lines from the pump itelf to add fluid. You do not need to remove the top of the pump, so see the 2 resivoirs in the unit - there is no need.

Before removing the bolts (banjo bolts) that connect the lines to the pump, use a marker and draw an arrow on the top of the bolt, pointed to the hydraulic line it feeds. The "banjo bolt" has a hole in it that allows the fluid to pass through it and into the line. Therefore, you must have this bolt oriented in the same way later when you tighten it back up. Drawing the arrow makes this fool proof - the arrow must later point at the line again when you are finished.

Remove one bolt (and hydraulic line) first. It will take a good grip on the pump (to make sure it wont turn) and a good pull on a socket wrench to break the bolt loose. If you cant hold it in place, put a cresent wrench on the lower part of the connection and pull the opposite direction - it come loose pretty easy this way. Remove the bolt (there is a washer on top, also a washer on the very bottom where it goes into the pump). hold the line itself up (or put it in the zip tie to hold up). You will see the bolt hole itself is where you add the fluid. First remove the line from the other pump, then top off both sides - pouring into the small hole that the banjo bolt goes into. Many people say that it helps to use a medicine saringe for this. The fluid I used had a little spout to it and poured right in.

After topping off, I left the unit there (hanging) for a while. Mostly because I got a call, but I also thought to let the fluid settle for a bit. I topped it off a little more when I returned. All that is left is to put the connectors back on. Remember, the right connector lays flat against the pump, with the connector on top, and the line running down the side of the pump. The other (left, the line does not run down the pump, but rather the line runs away from the pump. put the bolt back through the washers and the connector to affix back to the pump. The arrows must be lined up to point at the lines (the arrows you drew). Go ahead and tighten at this point.

Turn on the power to the car and raise/lower the rames several times. To raise, you press the button once (I think). But to lower, you must hold it in until it is all the way down. I only raised/lowered 4 - 5 times, then left the rams extended. I meassured each to see how long they were extended. Each was 2 marks over 3 inches - the same length! SWEET!.

Lower the rams again and reassemble the units into the car. This is really easy and fast - the hardest part is moving the shrowd around to get it in the right place - but even this is not bad.

Lazurus

One more for comparison.

Here's the sequence to fix:
1) raise the wing and then renmove it........lots of other posts on wing removal.
2) lower the rams, and remove their upper snap rings to get them apart. This can be done in or out of the car, feel free to open the hoses........we'll re-bleed next. CAREFUL: There are springs inside (used to help retract the rams).......no dangerous load when the rams are retracted.
3) Clean the Chromed external sliding surfaces of the rams and the I.D.'s of their mating sleeves. This is where youi'll find the crud you can get at otherwise. I wouldn't lube beyond maybe a light rub with a silicone spray...certainly nothing that will collect dirt like a greese or oil. Put the rams all back together. Don't install the wing.
4) Flush and re-bleed:
a) Uncover the hydr. pump under the deck lid so you can apply an external power source. Note a battery charger will do it and note that swapping the input polarity reverses the direction of the pump.
NOTE: the pump is really two syringes driven in parallel by a motor driven screw..........this is how it synchroniozes the two rams........out of snyc rams means one side has less fluid in it than the other.....simply, the fliud colums are different in length.
b) Submerge both of the open hose ends (the ram end banjos) in a few ounces of fresh hydraulic oil (as used for power steering and for the small hydraulic brake reservoir up front). A clear container is good so you can see the fluid exchange and when the air is blead out.
c) Cycle the motor back and forth until all the air is out. CAUTION: don't over heat the electric pump motor.
NOTE: the total oil volume in the pump is very small..........maybe an ounce or so........so don't expect any big flow or spray here, and the fact that the flow is very small doesn't mean the pump is shot either.
d) With the hose ends STILL submerged in the oil.........retract the pump .......i.e. draw in a full fluid charge. KEEP the hose ends submerged.
d) Reconnect the hoses to the rams; A spare pair of hands hepls but yopu can do it alone too. Just have your self set up so that you loose the least oil from the dripping hose end as possible as you pull the hose end out of the oil container and get the banjo bolt and washeras screwed in. Do one hose after the other keeping the second one submerged until you are ready to connect it up. Some loss is inevitable and no big deal.
e) cycle the rams up/down 6-8 times.........their operation will become consistent.......although they will probably be out of sync. due to different oil loss during the two hose connections.
f) Sync the two rams: Realize that the big springs are pusing the Chrome rams down......and the oil in the hose/pump is pushing them up aginst the spring load. So following the manual more or less;
f1) raise the rams to a mid point.
f2) on the ram that sticks up the highest, crack the banjo bolt on its end allowing the ram spring to force to bleed bit of oil out as the ram lowers matching the height of the other........go back and forth a bit until they are within about 2 mm or 1/16 inch of each other........perfection is nice, but not required.
NOTE: If you let too much oil out.........refill the pump per e)above and start over.
g) Cycle the rams up and down to be sure they remain pretty closely synced........and re-install the wing.
NOTE: you'll end up with oil all in and over the rams and it may appear to leak.........drive and clean with the black covers on the bottom over the banjo bolts off for a week or two to be sure you either really do have a leaky ram........or just long term 'run off'.

Bernard IV

My method leaves the rams in place and is easiest:

Remove the plastic over the pump and remove the pump.
Use a battery to lower the motor all the way, you may have to experiment a little to get it going the right way. Don't let the motor struggle at the far ends of the range or it breaks the plastic in there.
Refill the pump with fluid and work out the air a little, let it sit and the bubbles come up.
To prime the wing cylinders I have one person hold the lines and banjo connection submerged in a bottle of the fluid and have another person grab one side of the wing and pump it up and down several times to pump air out and fluid in.
Reassemble being careful not to dump out your fluid.