pfan

2013 991s with 45k miles, never tracked, clutch never abused. Recently, engagement point moved almost to the floor, and clutch pedal sticks in the depressed position. No signs of slippage or other internal issues. Gear selection is extremely difficult.

Indy has replaced slave and master cylinders with no improvement. He mentioned he had difficulty bleeding the slave, but I assume he followed the correct procedure.

What are the odds that the clutch itself (to include throwout bearing, shift fork, or pressure plate) needs replacement? I still tend to believe that the clutch package itself is not the problem, and that the mechanic is struggling with the diagnosis.

Joec500

Actually i had something similar, where the pedal stuck to the floor. From what I understand bleeding out clutches are tricky. Let me know if you find anything. It typically happens in hot weather for me

pfan

Found this from another thread, and the part about the O ring seal is interesting:
"How to bleed a 991:

1. Fill the brake fluid reservoir to the max level.
2. Remove the triangular cover under the transmission to gain access to the slave cylinder.
3. Move the gear shift lever at the transmission to gain access to the plastic hose connection on the slave cylinder. that is the bleed screw.
4. Loosen the nut under the plastic line fitting about 1 turn.
5. Pump the clutch pedal by hand until it feels firm in both directions (up and down). You will have to pull the pedal up as there is no pressure being applied to the clutch. (Make sure that the brake fluid reservoir level is still high to avoid adding air into the circuit.)
6. Close the bleed screw...no big torque need be applied, snug it up firmly... plastic slave cylinder body and aluminum screw..
7. Test the brake pedal...you should be done. If not, repeat.
8. Make sure the hydraulic supply line is correctly supported at the rear of the transmission to avoid what happened to me. The coiled end snaps into a clip mounted on the side of the transmission.
9. Reassemble the triangular cover under the transmission.

So the mystery fitting on the slave cylinder turns out to be a clever O-ring sealed valve that permits the slave cylinder to bleed air to the plastic tube connected to the top of the brake fluid reservoir without leaking to atmosphere. If you back the fitting out too much you will defeat the O-ring seal and the cylinder will be bleeding to atmosphere in addition to the plastic hose. Pretty clever and neat. The only difficulty is access to the bleed fitting. A short handled 13mm open end wrench did the trick for me. There is probably a special Porsche tool to make it easier.
After performing this latest iteration the clutch hydraulic circuit is completely purged of air and the pedal is like butter in both directions."

I'll try to diplomatically point this out to my Indy just to make sure he's aware.

pfan

An additional question:

My Indy is telling me that the clutch most likely needs to be replaced. What would happen if he pulled the clutch and found it to be OK? Do I still pay full labor costs?

VII7

Why are you asking the internet? That is for you and him to discuss.
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pfan

Simply because the internet likely has a number of people who have been through similar experiences. Would be nice to know what the standards are before any discussions.

VII7

The dealer standard is you continue to pay for everything until they guess right, mostly smoothed over by saying that something else is "also" wrong.
Indys have their own rules, some follow the dealership and some provide some discounting for misdiagnosis, you would have to ask your indy.
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911-TOUR

You have air in the system or a leaking seal. The clutch is not bad at 45K miles, your engagement point is at the floor, its not slipping...this indicates you have a problem with the hydraulics.

GL!

ducktails

Yup... with an Indy (most shops really) you are paying for their Time and Materials, not a firm fixed price to diagnose and fix whatever may be wrong with the car. It makes sense, it would be an awful lot of risk to commit a price without knowing what it will actually cost in labor and parts to correct.

Bud Taylor

Once several years ago with 12k miles and has not occurrd again. I would wait. It was either electronic or fluid.

pfan

Unfortunately, waiting is not an option, as the car is in the shop and is barely (at best) drivable.

Spoke with the mechanic and was advised that after the latest bleed the clutch pedal initially acted normally during test drive, however, started sticking again after several minutes. I continue to believe it's a hydraulic issue.