Speedtoys

You have a headlight out warning light?

Was just following up on this: "the LED ballast tricks any sensor into thinking there is a halogen bulb. "

Cuz..on a 928, there is no warning for these, on OTHER cars, that have one...these might trigger them because they dont have enough current.

Thats where we get warnings with LED bulbs in the corners of the car, etc. Missing current detection.

Alan

There is no headlight out warning. The only circuits monitored directly are the brake lights and the rear & rear/side marker lights. The indicators will flash faster (with incandescent bulbs)if there is a bulb out, but that's not really a direct monitor (common on other vehicles too). No front lighting is monitored - but its usually pretty apparent if headlight are out anywhere but on well illuminated city streets.

I think the LED current will be much lower than incandescent bulbs. Don't worry about the lenses they can take the power quite well. The new cap needs to be made of something that can handle the heat of the heatsink, the stock cap can get quite hot also - the bulb is quite close and the Quartz capsule get phenomenally hot in operation - the the metal bulb base transfers most of the conducted heat heat to the lens - but the outer cap will still get hot.

Alan

Ed Scherer

For the record, I just took some measurements of current draw of an LED H4 (the variant that I showed back in post #50 of this thread) as well as a standard 55W/60W halogen H4.

• LED H4: low beam: 1.75 A, high beam: 1.75 A
• 55W/60W halogen H4: low beam: 4.26 A, high beam: 4.90 A

These LED H4s thus use less than half the current of halogen H4s. That, along with the regulated drivers (note that they're even specified to work from 12 V to 24 V) IMHO argues against spending time on beefing up wiring.

Also notable that my previous generation LED H4s (that according to the specs had less light output than this newer generation) draws about 2 A on low beam (I don't remember the high beam current draw and I failed to record it; I might revise this post next time I get a chance to measure this).

traxtar928

Alan and Jeff:

As for the headlight warning, I know there's something monitoring current to the lights... because, self-admittedly, I had initially wired up my pigtails incorrectly... and when I turned on the headlights, the warning light in the dash would illuminate.

The headlights themselves would ALSO illuminate, albeit very dimly. I quickly figured out that I had ground and hi-beam wires switched on the 9004 side of the pigtail.

Strangely enough, my DMM indicates that when the low beam is on, the high beam gets ~4.5V... so this switch meant when I turned on the low beams, I was only sending voltage from the low-beam terminal to the high-beam terminal on the bulb, and the high-beam current was going backwards through the bulb (in from the ground terminal, and out the high-beam terminal). Strangely enough, the LED ballasts would still ignite with the incorrect pigtail wiring... even with that low voltage.

If this 4.5 volts at the high-beam during low-beam operation is not typical, could it be indicative of a wire crossover or short somewhere between the headlight relay and the connector?

Ed Scherer:

That's in-line with my measurements as well. I was measuring ~1.73-1.74A. Interesting looking at the data sheet for these LED cells has them peak at 1.35A... the rest of the current draw is obviously in the ballast, and the output current is controlled with the circuitry in that ballast box since it remains steady regardless of hi/low beam operation. I expected a higher draw with hi-beams on.

It makes me wonder if operating both high and low beams is even an option?? Is there a risk of damaging the ballast if I run high and low beams together with the direct-power relay setup?

DKWalser

The JDMastar LED lights come in a 9004 version and in a 9007 version. The light output (measured in lumens) is the same for both versions. For those of us with the 8" H5 lights (which is wired with a 9004 plug), why are people using the H4 replacement (9007) and rewiring it rather than using the direct replacement?

Ed Scherer

I'd worry more about heat dissipation (of LED-generated heat) and lifetime of the LEDs, as I suspect (especially given the passive heatsink design) that these bulbs haven't been designed to run both high and low LEDs concurrently.

traxtar928

They might list a 9004 and 9007 product, but if you look at the product pictures there is no difference in the LED cell placement between those and the H4 LED bulb. One picture for the 9007 shows a single set of cells, but that's inconsistent with the other images for that product. There's currently no product on the market (to my knowledge) that mimics the filament orientation of a 9004 halogen bulb.



Ed,

If heat dissipation is the only worry, then it should be okay? I was more concerned with the ballast not being able to handle powering all 16 LED cells. Also, I would think a halogen bulb would get considerably hotter than an LED, as the temp video shows in my initial post... but that was only running hi or low beams individually. I have a laser thermometer... might be worthwhile to compare results.

77tony

....

DKWalser

I don't think that's accurate. JDM's website shows different LED cell placement between their 9004 and 9007 products. The two products are different sizes. The "bulb" of the 9004 product is 18mm in diameter and 60mm long (the length to the end of the heat sink is 91.5mm. Those measurements for the 9007 product are 16mm, 53mm, and 83mm, respectively. The picture showing the length measurements shows the 9004 with two banks of 3 LEDs and the 9007 has a single bank of 4 LEDs. (Only one side of the bulb can be seen.)




Here is a picture of the 9004 replacement.




Here is a picture of the 9007 replacement.

So, again, for those of us with the 8" H5 (9004) headlights, shouldn't we be using the 9004 replacements rather than trying to adapt the H4 (9007) replacements?

jcorenman

This has been discussed before, but I think it needs consideration here: The USA DOT-spec H5 headlights do not have the sharp upper-cutoff for low beams that is characteristic of European headlights (including the Euro-spec 928 H4s).

So increasing the brightness of the bulb for an H5 headlight also increases the glare, whether halogen, HID or LED. Yes, you can see better with low beams (as Carl's photos demonstrate in the other thread) but you also blind the oncoming drivers.

If you drive in brightly-lit urban areas then the stock H5s work fine. Be happy.

If you drive in dark rural areas then you need better lights, but H5s with brighter bulbs are not the answer. Either slow down or bite the bullet and fit H4s-- even with stock halogen bulbs they are a big step up. Or fit higher-wattage bulbs (with relays), or LEDs. But please, start with the H4 reflector assembly.

DKWalser

Thanks, Jim. I don't disagree with anything you wrote. My plan is to replace my current 8" H5s with 8" H4s. Then, I'll likely replace the halogen bulbs with an LED replacement -- to reduce the load on my alternator which doesn't seem to like having the lights and A/C on at the same time.

However, I'm still confused. It appears some people are trying to mount LED H4 replacements into their H5 reflectors, which is why they're finding it necessary to splice a 9004 plug onto the LED bulb. (If they've already switched to H4 reflectors, you'd think the 9007 LED bulbs would be plug compatible.) Wouldn't using an H4 replacement bulb with the H5 reflector be even worse than using an H5 replacement?

I know, from your other thread, that's not what you're doing. You have the H4 reflectors and are looking for an appropriate LED replacement bulb. It just seems others are looking for a short cut that doesn't involve replacing the reflectors. The new LED bulbs can be "adjusted" to alter the pattern. I just find it hard to believe the range of adjustment can overcome a bad reflector.

traxtar928

Regardless, none of those are the same filament layout as an actual 9004 bulb. Even in those images, there is not a 9004 or 9007 halogen pictured for comparison. The H4, H3, H1, etc is used internationally in off-road applications, so there's no liability to develop a bulb for those housings. All the manufacturer has to disclaim is 'for off-road use only'. The 9004 and 9007, however, is a dedicated headlight bulb. I'm not aware of any off-road lights that use those bulbs. It's not in the best interest of the manufacturer when there are cheaper international bulb types available.



There might be different bulb types listed on the JDMastar website, but when comparing the actual LED cell layout, there's really only a like-for-like comparison to the international 'off-road' bulb styles currently available. There is no product that has the same filament positioning as a 9004 or 9007... ESPECIALLY the transverse filament in a 9004. For your reference, the two sides of the Philips LED bulb are symmetrical.

We must agree that these LED bulbs are not a 'JDMastar' product, any more than the ones currently offered by 928 Motorsports are their own product. These are Lumiled (Philips owned company) bulbs with a brand label slapped on for sales purposes. The silver ones that ED Scherer has, my black ones, the 928 MS ones... they are all the same product made in the same factory (or at least, with the same part tooling and electronics).

Basically if you have an H5 housing, there is still no LED equivalent bulb available. At best, you're putting a 'higher wattage' halogen (in this case, it's LED), in the crappy reflectors and scattered throw H5 lens that would probably not be pleasant for oncoming traffic. So, if you're comfortable with that, then any of these LED options are fine... I honestly don't see one style out-performing another.

jcorenman

If you have H4 headlights then I think you want to be looking at this H4/9003 LED replacement and not the 9007:
https://www.jdmastar.com/8th-gen-700...scription=true

We're still running halogen bulbs in our H4's (with relays), works fine but it would be very nice to reduce the load.

What I am looking for is same-or-better performance with respect to light pattern, brightness and moisture sealing, with less power consumption compared to 130/100w halogen H4s.

Agreed, but I think it is more than not-pleasant: The guy you are potentially blinding is coming at you pretty fast. In an urban area this not a bit deal, but on a rural two-lane it can be pretty spooky.

Carl Fausett

We would like the low beam cut-off of the H5-9004 (US) headlamp to be as crisp as the H4 (ROW) headlamp, but it's never going to happen.

This is because the North American headlamp assembly is designed to throw a bit of light upward, even in low beams. The DOT, in their infinite wisdom, decreed that the US headlamp shine some light up "to illuminate road signs".

1) note if you look inside the US 9004 assembly shown here below, the light shield has a big hole in the center, where the H4's have a solid light shield with no hole.

2) the lens of the H5 tells the rest of the story. The lensing I have outlined in this picture are those designed to scatter light upward for the illumination of street signs. An inspection of a H4 (ROW) lens will show they are absent.

Carl Fausett

This is the low-beams of our adjustable 9004 (H5) LED headlight against the garage door so you can see the light pattern. Given the lens is designed to spray some light up, I think this is pretty darn good. I have been driving these for a while and have yet to have anyone "flash" their brights at me. That said, when I installed them, I did re-aim my headlamps down a bit more than they were. Seems to work fine and I really like the increase in light they provide.