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Just before storing for the winter, I replaced my steering rack with a rebuilt from 928 int. Weather wasn't happy when it was completed so I did not get the alignment done and tucked her away.
Is there anything tricky I should know about 928's in that department? Anything I should pass on to the shop, or a specific type of shop to use only?
Yes, there is something you should pass along to the shop. They should align the car BEFORE taking weight off the front wheels.
Here's why: A 928's front suspension is fairly tight. Once the car has been lifted up with it's front wheels dangling, it takes about 100 miles of driving before the ride height returns to normal. So, if the shop lifts the car up and allows the front wheels to dangle (which they must do to inspect the front suspension components), they won't be able to properly set the alignment until the ride height returns to normal. The shop service manual shows how to return the ride height to normal without driving 100 miles, but few shops have the necessary tools.
I told my shop this and the owner said that he preferred to inspect the suspension before doing the alignment. So, he measured the ride height before lifting the car. Then, after lowering the car, he and another mechanic bounced the front end up and down to lower the ride height back to normal. It took about 15 minutes of vigorous bouncing to get it right. They'd bounce the front end for a minute or so by leaning on the two front fenders and then measure. Repeat several times until the measurement is back to normal. Next time, the shop owner said he'd do the alignment first and the inspection second.
Hrmmm. Makes me wonder. Since I just did the rack and obviously it was in the air for the job, does that mean I should drive it for 100 miles before the alignment? (It isn't far off, no pulling or tracking etc.)
Or do you think 3 months of sitting should have settled the suspension?
The "100 miles" is a guess.....a few hard brake stands will do it much quicker.
This is why I don't subscribe to the "Drive X miles and don't lift the car" methodology. It's arbitrary and can give a false positives. Drive the X miles, don't life the car and find out 100 miles later your worn out tires means your car was not fully settled, not good.
Doing an inspection and ride height check should be performed with every alignment.
"Bouncing" the car works, but the WSM method (and what my shop does) is pull the car down. Takes no time at all.
Print this and take it with you to the alignment shop:
Yes, make sure you're at the proper ride height before going in, and measure from the fender lip down to the ground. When you get the car back, measure again to ensure they didn't lift the car and get it wrong.
Shops usually have two reasons to lift the wheels .. first, they want to inspect the front end to sell additional services. Second, they have to rotate the wheels with the sensors attached to calibrate the alignment machine. They can accomplish this however by rolling the car forward and backward on the lift, so that's the easiest solution for a 928 to avoid lifting the front end. It's not that big a deal, just goes against what they're used to doing with other cars all day long.
The last thing about a 928 alignment is tighten the rear camber bolts to the 140 fl-lb spec. Very few alignment places seem to use torque wrenches, and 140 is a bit more than you might assume those bolts would need so it's good to address this when talking with them.
Contact Franzl at Auto Select in New Market 905-853-0442
He knows proper way to align a 928, he aligned my 928.
No affiliation.
Originally Posted by Jherriott
Hey guys,
Just before storing for the winter, I replaced my steering rack with a rebuilt from 928 int. Weather wasn't happy when it was completed so I did not get the alignment done and tucked her away.
Is there anything tricky I should know about 928's in that department? Anything I should pass on to the shop, or a specific type of shop to use only?
Your 928 needs to be at your target ride height if you want toe set correctly. How you get there is subject to debate. If you know in advance what ride height the car will "settle to", your shop can pull the front down to that height before adjusting anything. That's what Erik and the WSM manual suggest. To make that work, you need to carefully measure the ride height before swapping suspension and steering components, and record that measurement. After your alignment plus 100 miles or so, verify and adjust height as necessary to get to the height the car was at when aligned. Or have it aligned again at the "new" ride height.
FWIW, I tried multiple fast loops of a speed-bump-littered neighborhood thinking that the car would settle from the hard braking and suspension movement. It didn't. I'm in the habit of doing alignments at home, so I was watching as the suspension relaxed and ride height returned to its normal on my car. Even after multiple laps with lots of speed-bumps encountered, the car continued to drop later during regular driving. I quit watching after a while, until I got to 75+ miles and height was back to normal-for-my-car height, then re-aligned.
Wow, thanks for all the replies and information guys. This is great.
The place I was thinking of going to has one of those huge scissor lift jobs where the car is resting on its wheels but you can still get into the suspension and the wheels are on rotating dishes. I'll talk to them first and watch the expression on their faces to see if they are up to the task. If not, I'll head up to Newmarket and check out Auto Select... thanks for that one Bimmermike!
Wow, thanks for all the replies and information guys. This is great.
The place I was thinking of going to has one of those huge scissor lift jobs where the car is resting on its wheels but you can still get into the suspension and the wheels are on rotating dishes. I'll talk to them first and watch the expression on their faces to see if they are up to the task. If not, I'll head up to Newmarket and check out Auto Select... thanks for that one Bimmermike!
Jase.
do yourself a favor, find a hunter machine.... then getting the setting up of the sensors is as easy as rolling the car back an forth on the rack. (never liftting)
the pull down method is kind of flawed. to many little things to go over here to explain... but if Erik has been lucky, then thats good.
Far from it, but yet again you will drag another thread down trying to justify your level of misunderstanding.
I got to go with Mark on this one. I have little confidence that you can get the car down to the correct ride height using that method. Plenty of modern racks out there that will allow you to never lift the car.
I got to go with Mark on this one. I have little confidence that you can get the car down to the correct ride height using that method. Plenty of modern racks out there that will allow you to never lift the car.
Jim Page has been doing 928 alignments this way for 34 years without issue. What makes him special?
What if your car is not fully settled when driven up on the "no lift" rack?
What if you have a worn out bushing (or anything) that cannot be detected with weight on the car? This is not hypothetical, talk to someone like Jim doing this stuff for multiple decades and he'll explain in great detail why he will never do a "no lift" alignment on any car. It's a flawed mentality driven by the desire to get the job done as quickly as possible.
These easy / fast methods are great for places paying their guys shop rate and their only concern is speed, not accuracy. My friend who worked many years at a huge dealership mall (Porsche, Benz, Jag etc...) they had a motto for alignments: "Set the toe and let it go" since that is the primary setting that effects tire wear.
Sorry, but that's not the mentality I want when dropping off my 928 for an alignment.
Bottom line, at least understand why you are requesting a "no lift" alignment so the shop understands what is going on. Just blindly following internet advice to "not lift" can lead to problems.
I understand where the Marks are coming from with regard to the pull down method. Unless someone knows how to to it properly, it can result in a false ride height reading -- and an incorrect alignment. Few shops do enough 928 work to justify becoming familiar with the pull down method, so I can see why some would not want to use that method. On the other hand, it is the way Porsche says to do it! So, ideally, it's the method that should be used.
I think a good compromise is to do the alignment before lifting the weight off the front wheels so a proper inspection of components can be done. This risks having to re-do the alignment if repairs are necessary to the suspension components. I'm sure most shops and car owners can work out a reasonable arrangement to address this risk.
As I said up thread, my shop addressed the issue by adjusting the ride height back to normal by bouncing the car up and down until the ride height was back to what it was when I drove in. It took them a good 15 minutes of bouncing to get it done. Next time, they said they'd do the alignment 1st and the inspection 2nd.
03-28-2016, 09:16 AM
1987 928 S4 Alignment
