puma

I am pretty sure there is a law where they have to tell you those incidents. For example, you buy the car, realise later that it was hit and they never said it, i am sure you would win in court.

The washed up title thing in Quebec isn't actual, they corrected the thing so it doesn't work anymore. In fact, it even worked with Ontario as a car that had a rebuilt or salvage title was purchased in Ontario and then when it came back, the title dissapeared.

I bought a car in Ontario that didn't have a rebuilt title and when i came to register it in Quebec, i needed to get the salvage vehicule inspection (which obviously was impossible to pass, lost tons of money on this) so i sold the car back in Ontario and it still doesn't have a rebuilt title. Go figure, seems like the system can be crooked opn both sides

Torontoworker

The problem seems to be when people without insurance on a vehicle decide to finally dump it off at the scrap yard and the scrap yard guys are rebuilding the car - going to MTO with the ownership that these people signed over and re-title it under one of the employees names and then off loading the car. Unless the insurance industry is involved in a payout for a wreaked car - the VIN does not get flagged in the ministry database.

A lot of the issues surrounding these 'grey' cars lay at the feet of MTO and the Government for not coming up with a plan to make sure once a vehicle goes into a scrap yard it only comes back out as crushed metal or parts.

In 'theory' all cars signed over to a scrap yard must have the ownership changed by the seller but this almost never happens as most people just let the seller take care of it. When it comes to a junked car - 99% of us drop the car off, sign the slip (or sign and give the slip to the tow truck driver) and away it goes.

A lot of the times the tow truck drivers are taking cars they think they can rebuild themselves and the car never makes it to the junk yard as intended. The driver tows it to a friend to work on or to a shade tree business and re-sells the car for cash and they rebuild it and move it for a profit.

These problems have been known to the ministry for years yet they won't act because they say it is a small percentage of the cars sold in 'this' province. There is also a very $active$ lobby group for the recycle industry in Ontario who want NO new enforcement plans put in place where EVERY car, insurance write off or owner-self write off must have the plates and ownership pass through an MTO or Service Ontario office. This industry (if you call some of these people an industry) don't want any of these cheap/free junked cars with a scrap VIN recorded or their supply chain of cheap sh$tty vehicles would dry up.

Then add in the social welfare groups who say changing the system so that low income people cannot buy a car 'cheaply' so that they can have it rebuilt or rebuild themselves - is anti-poor. Right now there is a HUGE market for cars that are pre-air test cars that went into junk yards and the title for these cars never saw the inside of an MTO office. They are being half assed rebuilt and then sold off at a nice mark up. These cars stay inside of Ontario simply because our Government caved into the social groups years back about the poor needing cars. It is these cars who are the worse smog producers in the Province and yet they are not tested. The stupid theory by the Government was: 'Oh they will end up scrapped anyway' Ummm, NO. You've created an artificial market for them when you don't require ALL cars to be tested of ANY age. While I agree the test is BS for new or modern cars, not having it for the junkers was madness. But again - we know who lobbied for these cars not to be tested and it wasn't the owners - it was the future resellers...

atr911

I'm ATR. If your friend wants to look at a 997 in Ottawa let me know. It's higher mileage but has the CPO and has been very well cared for.

I have no idea if it has been in any accidents as I just trusted that CPO would ensure it's condition. Ive aligned it personally and it's straight. Beautiful guards red paint with minimal flaws considering the mileage. If your friend wants a driver, I've got the car for him.

If he wants a show car, direct him to an Italian brand. Ha ha. Jk.

Imo000

The number of pre '88 cars is insignificant. I hardly see any so I have no idea what how relevant or how big this grey industry is.

USMC_DS1

Stealerships tend to embellish the truth... I bought a CPO'd car last month. The dealership advised that a PPI was unnecessary as the car was an '08 and had over a year of the original warranty left plus 2 yrs CPO. I still got the DME and an indy to perform the PPI... found an RMS leak plus exhaust issue/noise. All repaired under the original warranty and I still purchased the car but it was not perfect as the dealership would have you believe. You can trust 'em as fair as you can throw 'em.

John 996 TT Cab

The law around declaring damage is different in every Province. In BC, a seller (private, corporate or dealer) must declare any damage to the vehicle in the past that was over $2,000 (I think that's the amount now). When you trade your car in you must declare also.

Dealers can actually check with Motor Vehicles (so can individuals) as to whether there's ever been an insurance claim! I traded my '82 in 3 years ago and they turned up a claim (it was for a stolen Targa Top) from 1987! Guess having government insurance does help somewhat!

John in Vancouver

LastMezger

Wasn't it Lauzon that balled up a customer's Gallardo...

911porschefan

I would get on the horn with Porsche Canada and express my concerns. There should be very strict guideline when selling a CPO vehicle. An email at least to Lawrence Yip about your experience is warranted.

Torontoworker

It's HUGE in the Hamilton area (pre 88's coming back from the dead) but the relevant issue is that MTO know about the problem's (lack of controls) occuring in the recycle industry and it can affect new cars that should have never come out of these yards in one piece. I used it as an example of the look the other way that is going on with a lot of Government policys.

aron in toronto

Not just a Quebec P-Dealer issue.
My recollection is a bit fuzzy but I remember years ago (05 or 06?) there was a Toronto lister who's home and garage were broken into at night while he and his family were sleeping. The thieves found his keys and stole his 997 and his wife's Cayenne. The Cayenne disappeared but the 997 was found the next morning.
Apparently the thieves discovered the car was equipped with a boomerang tracker and they didn't have the correct key (chip?) to disable it, so they decided to vandalize it before dumping it. IIRC all the seats and dash were slashed, most of the exterior was deeply keyed and windows smashed. The owner opted not to take the car back and settled with the insurance. The car later ended up at one of the local dealerships, CPO’d with no mention if its history even through it received a full re-spray, interior and new glass.

ZR8ED

You are partially correct. It may have double or triple paint (basecoat/clearcoat) IF it was repainted at the factory. Sometimes defects are serious enought to warrant sending it back around the shop. I do not know for a fact that Porsche does this, but every other OEM paint shop does. Have a look around new car lots, you will find as much as 14mils total filmbuild, which is about the maximum film build you would want. Any more paint on it, and it will like shatter/chip when it gets stone chips.

As for seeing as little as .3 mils of paint on an older car, "cutting/polishing" the paint does remove material, and will eventually wear away the clearcoat. As an FYI the clearcoat contains most of the uv protection for the paint layers.

Christien

There was no clearcoat on older cars. I'm not sure what year Porsche started using clearcoat, but certainly back in the early to mid 80s it was just single-stage paint.

ZR8ED

Correct. Paint back then (likely an acrylic enamel) had more uv protection in the basecoat. It was also thicker for hiding, durability, appearance etc..

I am unsure as to when they (or any mfg for that matter) specifically changed technologies. Paint shops converted on a plant by plant basis, just as some plants today are still using solventborne, and newer plants are using waterborne or even powdercoating some or all of the layers.

Scott.