Christien

and maybe ruffle a few feathers. I came across a thread at the OPP forum (forums.blueline.ca) about the OPP stopping one of their own for 150+ back in Feb. (pretty sure we discussed it here) I guess she was doing 165 and was stopped by Brant County OPP (which would be between Woodstock and Hamilton on the 403).

Several gems in there that prove that rule of law just simply doesn't exist:

"I guess it would take real ballsy officer to lay that charge"

"Back in the day that was just cruiser speed"

" ticketing one of your own is f##king gay"

"ticketing one of your own especially in a cruiser while on duty, is retarded."

"Do you actually think it is normal for an on duty officer to give and another on duty officer a ticket and impound your dep's cruiser?"

"Many a co-worker of mine have fallen prey to an older OPP Officer on Hwy 400 who is relentless in ticketing fellow officers who lived north of the Big Smoke.....
There was a two week period, officers were complaining daily of this who tagged them for really low speeds."

"Ticketing someone off duty is one thing (which is still gay), but on duty? To ticket and seize the police car, moron. Stayed tuned for a transfer at that detachment. An officer who is retared enough to ticket and seize a police car, will likely be pushing a crusier for the remainder of his career in cow country. Once you stab someone in the back it is never forgotten and your career is finished. The guy I menition plus we have another ex OPP guy who would ticket his own mother, are not well respected by anyone."

"don't pull our shift mate over...however, our shift has our own rules....get caught (for no apparent reason)...you buy the pizza on night shift for the whole platoon///You see, that's the way it should be."

"I don't agree with charging other coppers."



Though to be fair, at least some of them think rationally and logically:

"Any regular Joe, regardless of "how long" they were doing the 165 would have rec'd the same ticket and seizure, why should this constable be any different? "
That's only from the 1st 3 pages of an 11-page thread, and even then, it's been locked to prevent further replies!

I realize this isn't legal evidence, but that's pretty much proof positive that the police are indeed above the law. A few years ago people were really concerned about a 2-tier health care system. How about a 2-tier legal system? Wow, talk about the proverbial old boys club.

Rant over, for now.

Christien

btw, here's the thread:
http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17566

MY86Carrera

.....

Ronan

Great find. Tells you a lot about the mentality. However, probably not a great one to quote if you're nailed

IXLR8

While in Ogdensburg, NY to pick up an order at the UPS Store, I happen to notice that the OPP's Golden Helmets motorcycle demonstration team was there.

How? Well one of them started smoking his back tire at one of the red lights, and at the next, he did that same thing. Good way to spend my tax dollars.

Then while driving up the 416, they cruised by me nicely at about 130+...in their short sleeved shirts.

There is nothing like seeing pros in action.

theiceman

Hey Brad .. since you are reading i have kind of a side question

One of my employees just called me , he got caught doing 118 in an 80 in a construction zone outside of Cornwall today .. he was just given a court date and not even a number to call ... does he have the opportunity to go to first atendance or an oportunity to change his date ? I have him on a course in Toronto the date of his court appearance.
Thanks

back to your conspiracy based programming ....

MY86Carrera

Well I shouldn't comment but....you rope me in every time at 38 kph over he should have received a part one. He had 3 options on the back....checked box three and request a court date. Now they have sent a date for him to appear, am I correct so far?

He should have an address on the notice he received, at least from which court to appear at. 411 the the address, call the number, they usually work with you. If not have someone act as his agent on that date.

BG

Dale Gribble

Some of those guys can really ride, but one thing i will never understand is why they ride in the same lane side by side, it's about as good an idea as trying 2 weld your gas tank back together. If one guy goes down he's likely 2 take out the guy beside him.

theiceman

Actually Brad I don't think that is what happened .. The guy gave him the ticket and a court date right on the spot .. there was an address for the courthouse. I told him the best thing to do was call the courthouse in a couple of days or drive there and talk to them. i guess if the ticket is high enough they don't even give you a set fine ... i got one a couple of months ago for higher with a set fine , but his was in a const. zone so that may be the difference.

MY86Carrera

.....I just check my notebook companion and he did get a part three summons, NO SET FINE starts at 35 over in a community safety zone. Its 6 points as well. Google or 411 the address and he should get some telephone numbers. Call and see what they can do.

BG

theiceman

Thanks Brad.....

Will Do ..

MY86Carrera

..... I have to bring this to the top......I was hoping for some good reading.

There in is the big problem with today's thinking and the internet......before you would shoot the **** with your co-workers at coffee or "the water cooler" for younger Seinfeld crowd. Opinions and grips are one thing in words but in the written form can haunt you and more so be misinterpreted oh so many ways. Lets face it ( and I don't condone the behaviour of some ) who would want to throw a co-worker under the bus...especially someone who is higher up the ladder than you, or have more years than you or is the bosses pet. I have worked many different jobs in my life - from washing dishes to auto mechanic to Pathologist assistant doing autopsies everyday to my current job. There is always someone who screws ups...some more than others, yes, and everyone will b!tch about them. How many get raked over the coals the first time out (or second or third) .... not many. That person continues on and it is all but forgotten and then they are what promoted !!! That is part of life. - Now onto the meat and potatoes of this thread. Christian found a forum - not unlike rennlist - which is part of a monthly publication BlueLine - for Police, police news and equipment and such for all police, not just OPP. There in this forum some like to complain in public about co-workers, the public and other juicy topics....... right or wrong its done. Now people form outside that field can read all this.....most without understanding the job, people, background etc. " This is not pointed you Christian, I don't know you and I don't make judgment on people I haven't met." So no offence is intended,...you were the lucky one to find this... Do I condone the comments on that forum....I will reserve that for coffee at a GTG. I will tell you I have scanned through blueline forums and do not go there.. ( Rennlist or Pelican all the way baby ) It has been said here before , usually after I put a dampener on the thread - forums are a place to discuss topics - b!tch, complain, debate and vent............We do it on Rennlist and cops do it on blueline. No different, right or wrong.

People in the same field will away try and help/cover protect co-workers...thats just the way it is - most feel what comes around goes around. Its all about Carmen Electra - no wait - Karma - Zen or Fate really

For this reason I tell my teenage son and daughter - don't print anything on the internet you wouldn't tell your closest friend or family..... some things are just best kept private and open forums are NOT that place.

BG

swbatte

I don't think the attitudes expressed by the people on Blueline are any surprise to any of us here. We all know that there are unspoken perks to being a COP. It is unacceptable however, that if they want to enforce a law, then the first step should be obeying it themselves.

You should see them leave the station here in London at the end of their shift!

Christien

Brad, you're absolutely right, however it's different with police - it has to be. And that's because their job is to enforce the law. The very first line in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms reads

"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

And the Rule of Law is that every single person is equal under the law, and nobody is above the law. It's a fundamental belief of our society, and (as far as I know) all democratic societies. Law and order cannot function without this belief.

Yet here we have police easily, commonly and systematically circumventing the rule of law. Whether that's to protect their own job or just be friendly to their coworkers, it goes against the very grain of our society.

In virtually any other profession such common courtesies may be extended to co-workers, and such courtesies may be unfair to regular customers or clientele, (I'm thinking, for example, employee discounts for merchandise, shorter waiting times for the surgeon's brother-in-law, a lawyer working faster and pro-bono for a family member, etc) however none of these are in clear, direct contradiction of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Police systematically letting each other break the law when there's absolutely no need to do, is a clear violation of the Charter. It places them above the law. Maybe not all laws, but certainly this section of the HTA.

Now, to discuss it online may be considered professionally inappropriate, but like many other things that have been exposed due to technology, it serves to inform the public, by hook or by crook, when they may be having the wool pulled over their eyes.

Brad, please don't think I've been directing this at you all along - that wasn't my intention. Though I was hoping for your comment, which you've delivered, it really is something that steams me (any abuse of power steams me). I think part of the problem, for me personally, is that more or less my entire exposure to policing has been negative. When I need them, they aren't there. When our SUV was stolen a few years ago, the officer I talked to sounded annoyed that I was bothering him, and assured me I wouldn't hear back from them, and here's my case # for the insurance company. He basically said to me 'too bad, sorry for you luck, but we can't help you'. When there was a 40-person brawl outside our house in a quiet residential court (with property taxes to rival downtown Toronto, BTW) and I call the police, it's 30+ minutes for them to arrive.

Yet when I'm doing 121 km/h down the 403 on an empty highway in good weather in a performance car, with driver training under my belt, they're right there. Or (over the last year or so) I open the local paper and read about the complete clusterf#ck that was Caledonia, I get frustrated. When I read about Fantino buying helicopters to patrol over a city of 300,000 with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, I get frustrated.

Then to read about systematic circumvention of rights, and realize just how commonplace and accepted a practice it is, well, it gets me angry.

So maybe I'm just unlucky in my exposure to police. Maybe I need to hear more good stories about what police are doing to make our society safer. Less stolen cars, Caldeonias and Tory Staffords. Less 62 year old grandmothers having their cars impounded for passing a truck. More - well, I'm stuck there.

MY86Carrera

Well written Chris, I know first hand how angry the public can get. Oh do I know...... I don't take anything here personal. I have a job to do so do you...that is what makes the world go round. The only correction would be a small one.... the above the law thing - it happens with more than just the road cop..... there are people making very large donations to crime stoppers and such that really should not be driving, etc. ( the deep pockets thing ), money talks in this world. I think there are more groups that get perks than we would like to admit to. Oh one thing though....HTA - the cop can use discretion ....That is written in to the act to protect the public. It just upsets people when that discretion is wasted on another cop ( now I'm only referring to HTA so don't read more into that) Have any of you been given a warning ??, that is discretion at work, and that didn't put you above the law, did it. I bet the guy that got a ticket that day thinks you got off easy, am I right. ... but that is not what your thread is discussing. Now back to my popcorn