MattAu

Hello,

I just joined the list. I am not a 996 owner but would like to become one. I drive a BMW 545i and my lease will be up soon. I am looking at getting either a 2004 996 or a 2005 997. I have some knowledge about the cars and their differences but I have a few newbie questions.

1) Is there any advantage in getting the newer 997 over the 996? Or would it be better to get the last model year 996 over the first model year 997 since all the "bugs" have been worked out?

2) What is the true ownership costs of owning a 996 or 997 that is out of warranty? What are the maintenance costs? I drive about 7-9,000 km a year. How much does a minor service and a major service cost?

3) Anyone drives a 996/997 all winter long? Of course you will need snow tires, but how does the car drives in snow and slushes? I suppose the low ground clearence can be an issue but I used to drive an Infiniti G35 and it was amazing in the snow with traction control on and a set of snow tires.

4) How much does a PPI cost at the dealer and how much does it cost at an indy?

5) Anyone learned driving manual on a Porsche? Or anyone has a 996 or 997 as his/her first manual transmission car?

I thank you in advance and I hope I will be able to join your ranks soon.

theiceman

why don't upi join us behind chapters any Saturday from about 10-1 on the queensway opposite sherway. There will be lots of examples of both including some guys that drive all winter.
then you can ask away all you want .
my neighbour bought his first manual car last year , a boxster, and just bought a 996 last week.

Turbodan

1 and 2 are very subjective.
3 yes and they are fine except in deep snow
4 don't know but make sure to get leakdown and codes read (specifically overrevs)
5 don't. clutches and trannies are expensive on these cars. not to mention sacreligous. get a honda or something to learn on...leasebusters? or just go straight to PDK.

pongobaz

1. 996 to 997 is an evolutionary rather than revolutionary difference. Many, many components are shared between them as is reflected in the parts numbers still bearing "996" on 997 models. Drive both and decide. All Porsches are incredibly reliable; that's why 2/3 of them are still on the road since the brand was founded.
2. based on your mileage, your biggest annual cost will be 1 oil change per year at approx $200. The first "major" service is at 96,000kms and that includes spark plugs, new serpentine belt as well as a whole battery of checks. Go to renntech.org and download the appropriate maintenance schedule for the year of vehicle you are considering.
3. Yes. Always get Porsche approved tires. Even the 2wd 911's drive better than other cars in the snow thanks to the engine weight being over the back wheels. The AWD versions are simply unstopable unless you get snow that is higher than the ground clearance of the car.
4. PPI at a Porsche Centre cost me $300. Was worth every penny. Indies are probably about the same but won't be able to access all the cars data without the very expensive Porsche PIWIS tester and system. Always get a PPI done by someone who has no vested interest in the vehicle.
5. No. And don't do it. A new clutch and flywheel install will cost you north of $2,000. A few lessons with Shifters.ca, cost significantly less!

Christien

1. 1st model years of almost all 911 generations have been problematic, with the exception of the 3.2 Carrera in 1984. It would seem to me that 1st MY 993s (1995) and 996s (1999) have had some of the most costly problems, but I guess that's to be expected as the technology gets more complex. I have yet to hear of any problems with 997s at all, though it may just be too early to tell. Certainly, the RMS issue with 99 996s made itself knows fairly quickly. I believe Porsche was very good about fixing those issues under warranty, including, in some cases, new engines.

Properly maintained (which isn't much) these cars are dead-on reliable. As good if not better than any Toyota or Honda. My 37 year old 911 (with a 42 year old engine) is my daily driver in the summer. It's been to Ottawa, Kingston, Shannonville and back, and at least 3 or 4 times a month takes me to London and back, in all types of weather (drove to London on Wed. morning in the height of "monsoon season"!). Plus, it gets driven hard at the track as often as possible. Admittedly, it requires more maintenance than a 996 or 997, but that's only due to age, not workmanship.

MattAu

Thank you all for your responses. Unfortunately, my wife already has plans for my daughter and I this weekend so I won't be able to come to the meet. Thanks for the invite.

I would love to hear more about the ownership costs. I get different opinions from reading different sites and people's posts. Some say an oil change is needed every two years (and I will use years since I won't be doing more than 7-9k km a year) and a minor service is required every two years and a major service is required every four years. That doesn't sound like a lot of maintenance. On the other hand, some say oil changes every year and tune-up (or minor service) every year. That sounds like a lot for just 7-9k km of use. More importantly, can anyone give me an idea of costs? How much is one of these minor service and how much is a major service?

Christien

I would do an oil change every year, regardless of mileage - it's what keeps your engine clean. I've done a DIY oil change on a boxster, and I believe the process is similar to a 996. Piece of cake. I'd never pay $300 to have it done if it's the same as the boxster. 2 jugs of Mobil 1 and a filter would be less than $100. 2 hours your first time, 30-45 minutes any time after that.

I think a lot depends on how you drive your car. If you track it (and I would advise you do!), count on tires, brake pads, brake fluid every year, eventually rotors, and possible suspension replacement (repair or upgrade) after a few years. If it's just regular street driving, I can't see how you'd need anything other than oil changes, possibly brake pads after a LONG time.

petee_c

I'm not sure about the oil change interval *needing* to be defined in years.

My oil analysis (n=3) showed that the additves found in the oils I use (Shell Rotella T,and whatever brand name synth was on sale at the time) were still present after extended interval drains. The oil analysis were on a 1.8T engine at 210hp, and a Honda 800cc (V4 engine) VFR, not on the Boxster.

The base numbers of even well used oils (12,000km on 4L change) were well in spec, so the 'acidity' arguement really doesn't hold true today, especially on a well running FI, watercooled engine.....

Again, my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth......

.....just a boy with a lot of toys to maintain (on the most cost effective maintenance schedule possible).

pongobaz

As I said, get the maintenance schedule for the model year of Porsche you are considering off renntech.org and just follow that as it varies from model, year and market. Porsche is pretty realistic with it's required service schedule.
What's the cost? In 3.5 years of ownership , all my maintenance has added up to $2500 approx. Tires (that's another matter): $2000. If you find that too expensive, remember that a C4S equipped like mine would have set you back close to $150K when new in 2003; so it can't be compared to the rolling appliance that most people have as daily drivers. These are high-tech semi-exotic sports cars...and luckily for all of us, relatively affordable.

Sputter

Most of us change the oil prior to storing the car for the winter regardless of miles, otherwise 5-7kms is wise.

keithfox

1&2) All 3 of my cars have been low maintenance. Boxster got RMS but only happened once.

3) A 4 or 4S with snows is great so long as not deep. I have a 996 2004 C4S with Blizzaks and it is just fine. My 2005 Cayenne with snows was awesome but that doesn't help you...

5) So long as it is newer. Not sure the exact year things changed. I have a 99 Boxster and the clutch is annoying in 1st gear. Very easy to stall if you are learning. In newer models they made the clutch much more forgiving. I believe this was the same as 996/997.

theiceman

.. and if your m96 grenades ,, then that will spike the costs a little

1 PGH 1

Changing oil is cheaper than changing metal ... so a once year oil change regardless of fewer miles driven is good insurance. I don't put many miles on my car (1,500 - 2,000 km/yr), but it's not uncommon for me to change the oil when it comes out of hibernation in the spring and when it goes away for the winter.
I would say my clk is more expensive to service than the p. But even the Escape seems to be $1,000 every time it goes in.
My biggest expenses for the p so far have been the mods

Dale Gribble

...

Dale Gribble

a crate motor is 9G's i believe...it hurts but considering the quality of car you're getting compared to MSRP...it's tolerable methinks.