Rally Guy

Oh - it just keeps coming...

On the matter of mandatory sentences for youth crime... again the US is an excellent bellweather leading indicator of how Harper's policies have already been tried and have failed. Sending 14 year olds to jail for life (mandatory sentencing) is proving to have NO measuerable effect on youth crime rates, or general crime in the US and they're rethinking the policy. In fact - it's being challenged as "unconstitutional". Harpers youth crime bill would face serious Charter arguments here too.

Out of touch and out of date (as usual), Harper is leveraing the very powerful motivator, fear, to scare you into thinking we need "tough legislation" on youth crime. Except, youth crime rates have been DROPPING for a decade! (and you might ask why - well turns out STRONG SOCIAL PROGRAMS are the key - another Liberal strong point)

Further - Harper is SO comitted to these erroneous, unnecessary crime bill measures, that he's threatened (the bully again) to make them confidence motions. Meaning - if he gets a minority, and the opposition doesn't support the bill, he'll call ANOTHER election! So - his ultimatim is this:

"Support my outdated, ineffectual, Charter-violating law or I'll waste another $300M of taxpayers money by forcing another election."

Okay - now that you know this stuff - I just gotta ask - WHO's voting for this clown???

RK

Rally Guy

As an aside - I've been recklessly citing stats all over the place - without proper souces being cited. If that troubles you, I'll gladly back these stats and facts up with the relevent data and studies as needed. Sorry - I'm kinda shooting from the hip here. And if anyone want to take me to task with any statement of fact or position - feel free to do so publicly or privately. I'll gladly admit if I'm wrong - if you'll admit where I'm right. : )

RK

Christien

Wow, some awesome discussion here. If everybody were even close to this passionate about their country and their leaders, I have no doubt it would be a much better place to live. Even if someone's beliefs were completely different than mine, someone who cares this much would only elect a leader that cares about their country (their WHOLE country, Mr. Duceppe) and would do a good job.

Christien

BTW, my vote in the poll is undecided, leaning liberal. I've got a crisis of conscience here. Our current local MP is David Christopherson, an NDP, who is absolutely excellent not only for his constituency but also as a backbench MP. He's been a fairly long-standing candidate, won the last election quite easily, and will likely win again this time. That said, I want to do everything in my power to see to it that Harper never sees the left side of the HOC floor again.

Rally Guy

Then consider vote swapping - helping out a "swing" riding. I think you'll see additional ways to help become available to you soon as well. Keep watching this thread!

Furhter - engage in this kind of thread on every board you're on. I was really pleased to see your initial post and the ingition of this thread.
Hopefully - it got some people thinking. I'm waiting to hear from some folks on the "other side" of my postions too. I don't want to bully anyone into voting a certain way or not expressing thier views - so here's hoping we get some contrarian posts soon and we can chat about the issues.

RK

Christien

Interesting, I've heard of vote swapping, but never considered it. I'll look into it.

I don't know that we'll get much debate from the conservative side, because frankly I think it's considered unpopular to be a conservative in Canada right now. Just like in the US it's unpopular to be a liberal (check out the Pelican Parts OT forum to see ample evidence of that!). So I suspect it may be something of a "guilty pleasure" for many.

Christien

BTW, this was precisely why I was so in favour of MMP when the suggestion came up. I would very much like to vote directly for PM, irrespective of my local candidate. When I was younger and living in London, I strongly disliked our local liberal MP, but still wanted to vote for Chretien (this was back in the mid 90s, pre-sponsorship scandal days!). Now it's the opposite - I like the MP but not the party.

Christien

I just looked into vote swapping, and I think it'll be useless in my riding. Our MP won by a 2-1 margin over the liberals last time, and it's been a long-standing NDP safezone. I'm on the west mountain of Hamilton, almost in Ancaster, but our area is grouped with the Hamilton Centre riding, which includes downtown and the steel plants, thus the strong union vote in the riding. It's kind of a strange riding (not to mention very large) - the provincial Hamilton Mountain riding includes us, but when they redid the federal ridings recently they grouped us in with the lower city, for whatever reason.

justinsrx7

RK, if you want to make a difference in this election, why don't you register a funny website domain like dontvoteforharper.com, and post your views. Make it simple to read and understand for the general population and then do some viral marketing and try to get some recognition from local news programs to get the message out. Otherwise, your wise words are only penetrating to a tiny group.

99three

Nicely stated RK. PM sent.

Rally Guy

JP - great idea - can you help?

RK

Bill N

RK, thank you...great posts.

Rally Guy

It's the least I can do to save my country from becoming, figurativly, if not literally, a 51st State.

The most important next step is to SPREAD THE WORD! There will always be hard-core conservatives - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Strong oppostion is healthy in a democracy. But a neo-con, conservative majority will (even if slowly but surely) destroy the social fabric and sovereignty of Canada. I'll argue that NO ONE wants that.

So our goal should be to educate the undecided. Help them understand the TRUE implications of a conservative vote. If they have compassion, pariotism or any sense of enlightenment - they'll do the right thing to preserve, even strenghten the fundemental convictions that make this country great... Support for personal freedoms, the Charter, presrvation of the environment, universal health and child care and the equal rights of all. We might even regain our international stature as a "thought-leader" on critical issues like climate change. Ask ANY foreign diplomat about the tarnishing of Canada's reputation on the world stage over the last two years. We're almost universally regarded as a fallen star on the world front, as we've pandered to US interests, made a mockery of international treaties and gone so far as to actually question the science of global warming. And you know who we have to thank for that! You want Canada to suck on the world stage for another 4 years? Then vote conservative again.

(Oh and this just kills me - people say "I don't want Dion representing us, he's such a "insert derogaroty term here". Consider that positoin while you take a second to double-check just what Harper's BEEN DOING as he represents Canada internationally! I think you'll be shocked and dismayed. What good is "good english" if the words being said ruin your county's reputation???)

RK

Bill N

My own despair is with the lack of substance in most political discussion...the nomination of Sarah Palin is, to my mind at least, a cynical vote of absolute confidence that substance doesn't count for crap. Moreover, the left and the right seem almost totally unable to communicate with one another...the level of discourse seems confined to groups of pundits yelling at each other, with the one talking the loudest and repeating him/herself most often prevailing.

Help, I'm sinking!!!

Rally Guy

Totally agree, and frankly - the word on the street is that we actually have Harper to thank for Canada's shocking slide in crap-throwing, divisive and simply mean-spririted campaign antics. There's never been so much vitriol hurled at a candidate as Harper's thrown at Dion. Of course - derision and character attacks are the providence of the feeble minded. Ever met a truly smart bully? Nope - they're compensating for thier simplicity. Now - I don't suspect Harper is actually stupid. (They've got that problem in the US). He's clever like a fox, but he's not wise. Nor open minded. He can only drive hard towards a goal that he's set out for himself, welfare of his country be damned.

That's why I actually take a step WAY back - sort out what MY values are for the country and then map them to the party most aligned with those that ALSO have a chance of winning. I'm largely a Dion fan - but frankly - I'm not too party-centric. I'm VALUES-centric and the Conservatives share none of my values. Things like a strong, independent Canada, universal child care, gun control, the environment, etc.

Taking this values-centric approach has allowed me to stay sheltered from much of the mud-slinging. Frankly - with Harper's outright reversals on several key statements (transparent gov and fixed election dates are two) I would not trust him if he came out tomorrow saying EVERYTHING I wanted to hear.

RK