JDSStudios

Omar, I just don't get how Porsche design looses so much power to a relatively simple design.
I would like to see pure evidence.

Is Porsche really missing in the design all this Horse Power/Torque all over the place?
1. Exhaust
2. Air Intake and filter
3. Plenum
4. ECU software
5. Headers

Am I missing anything?
Why in the world doesn't Porsche gives us at least the option to choose these minor tunings from factory,
without getting into the 20K X51?

I mean take the ECU, for example; if all this hidden horsepower is contained in a few lines of software code,
I have to assume it is just for gas economy. If so, then why can't we just have a switch to choose economy or
performance, instead of the 1200.00 or whatever for GIAC to flash the ECU?

According to all these manufacturers, their tests and graphs show for (above)
1. up to 25 HP
2. up to 10 HP
3. up to 20 (?)
4. up to 10, depending of combinations with exhaust and CAI
5. up to 5 or so

So, can we really add all this to 70 or 80 HP lost in small relatively inexpensive
parts, that Porsche would loose a lot of money if they were better built?

I am skeptical, but open minded, and of course I wish all this HP is for real.

John

TurboS

I can't speak for non turbocharged vehicles, but a chip, exhaust, and diverter valves for a 996 Turbo increase the hp to 505, and almost equivalent torque. Why didn't Porsche standardize these mods, not sure, but I'm glad somebody did.

4RE 430 by 2.

cleanme

Well there are a multitude of reasons and some we may never know. But here are a few, Porsche has a clientele base the world over. They are known for performance with reliability which seems to be so elusive in the upper echelons of performance. So let's take a look at the 997 Airbox, very good design. Could it be improved by having a less restrictive filter and setup like the EVO box? Certainly, but that might only work for North America, Europe & Asia. What happens in the middle East when you have lots of fine sand and possibly silt? Well that silt will get by that filter and grind away in your engine-not good. So Porsche decides on the best all around compromise.

Let's take the ECU, millions of dollars of research and millions of lines of programming code go in there. So logically, it should be the best it is, well it is...for everywhere and for everyone. If you want your ECU tuned it might change a few characteristics that would turn off potential new customers.

Exhaust, lots of reasons for this. You have to meet emission requirements as well as balance that keeps enough back pressure, heat etc for...everyone, everywhere. Where as tuners and people that drive tuned vehicles like that louder sound, don't really care about gas mileage etc so it's 'easy' for these companies to make a product that's more free flowing and adds power.

Headers, the headers on a stock 997S are absolutely brutal when compared to the Fabspeed ones. But, it would cost Porsche too much money to make these balanced headers, they might need to retool their factories & robots costing millions of dollars and then more money because they take longer to build!

Let's look at the Plenum, the RSS Plenum, I believe is sand cast, that means a mold is made out of 'sand' essentially and the molten alloy is poured in/around. When it is done cooling/solidifying you have to break the sand off by whatever means etc. But a result of sand casting is a 'dimpled' surface so I imagine someone sandblasted the inside of the plenums to make them smoother and use some sort of tool to clean up the mold lines on the holes on the inside. They then had to put that smooth sealant on the inside. Sand casting takes wayyyy too long as a sand mold has to be built for each plenum and is destroyed after. Then the subsequent smoothing/sealing etc takes even more time and isn't automated. It is too costly. So Porsche makes a compromise.

Make sense?

EDIT: About horsepower gains. You can't add gains, like say the ECU gives 15hp, it may give 15hp but only if you have an exhaust system and that 15hp gain may also be in part of adding that exhaust. The two work in tandem, then say you add intake for 10hp. Alone that intake won't do anything but add an exhaust and the ECU and they all help each other. Hope that makes sense?

Dale Gribble

Not 70-80hp....it isn't as simple as just taking the gains of individual parts and then adding them up. With intake plenum, headers, sport cats and exhaust..you MIGHT see...27-30 HP (include the intake on that as well). add the lightweight flywheel and you would get maybe another 8-12HP not consumed by parasitic rotating mass, and you will also reach that power level sooner (detailed tests were performed with corvettes...flywheel is the way to go for sure, i'd definitly set some cash asside for it). The chip COMBINED with those parts might give you another 10 on a 3.4 motor...maybe less on the more efficient 3.6 motor.

Cams = BIG HORSEPOWER (50HP or more depending on how agressive)
Supercharger by itself is another 100 or so HP...BUT when you add the charger, you will see an increase in benifit from all the other parts you added before. you can get above 400WHP on a 3.4L motor with the supercharger and boltons, and on a 3.6L motor you can see upwards of 430..and that's WITHOUT even going with the highboost pulley on the charger.

There is power to be had in these motors, you just have to be stupid, and determined to find it (*I raise my hand at this point*)

The reason porsche didn't find these few HP is:
1) tooling costs to make a metal intake plenum rather than a simple plastic one = not worth it.
2) at the time of the 996, there was no need because the 300hp caerrera fit right in, so did the 2002 year model car (i mean, christ, you're not THAT much slower than a ferrari 360 6speed if you know how to get your car off the line, and at 1/3rd the cost)
3) they build headroom into these cars in order to meet GLOBAL emissions and noise standards (the worst being switzerland for noise, and california and canada for emissions).

cleanme

I've heard with light weight flywheels there is 'chatter' and vibration at idle&low rev. I'm assuming because there isn't enough centripetal force pulling on it yet?


Side note: Omar, what's the deal on your 911, your signature changes every two days haha

Dale Gribble

flywheels: yeah there's some chatter...i think its very light and barely noticeable, just turn on the radio.

side note: car is staying...but some "special additions" will be made over the winter and next year.

P.P.S.: top gear 9 upload status?

cleanme

Yeah I thought the 'chatter' was overrated/complained about. Can't wait to hear what your doing to the car. I'm glad you're keeping it because I certainly would!

As for Top Gear it aired an hour later in England today and then I had friends over who wouldn't leave when I told them I've got customers waiting! It'll be done in half an hour, really good episode, really good. The Stig is friggin amazing...

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

Ok Omar. Spoke with Greg , As of January 1st, the price of the plenum will go up approx $50.00. We will definately do a group buy with you guys either now or in early 2008. The minimum amount of people for the deal to make sense will be 5. Obviously, the more people , the bigger the discount.

Theo

rideau

Brad
What's your opinion on the plenum? Have you installed one for any of your customers? BTW, your 2008 Apex line-up looks great...I signed up with Gerry B for all of the F1 track days.
Cheers
Ian

Pfaff Tuning GM

Ian,

we have not as of yet installed one, however if the numbers are true then it seems to be a great deal for getting horsepower on normally aspirated engines for not too much money. I'm doing more reaserch on them this morning. I spoke to my friend Theo in Miami and he says they work very well. will update you later today.

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

Gregg is here in Miami and we discussed the plenum and other products. There was a group buy for initial launch. How ever, any future group buys , if deciding to do one, will more than likely go through Brad at Pfaff Tuning. Just finalizing details today with Greg.


Theo

Pfaff Tuning GM

Good morning everyone,

Everything that i have read and the people i have spoken to about the Plenums has been more towards the positive about the gains and how the car feels after installing them.

I will have word back today as to what i can do on a group purchase.

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

Meise, Greg is going to call you this afternoon to talk details.

Z06

Does this work on a 996 GT3?

golfguy

Omar, let me know how much for a 997tt plenum. have to keep up with those gt2 boyz somehow.