Michat

I have a 2006 997 6 speed Carrera with 3.6 engine, purchased 13 years ago with 20,000 kms. Car now has 96,000 kms, uses just over a litre of oil in 5000 kms, doesn't smoke, no abnormal sounds, no sooty pipes. Use only 94 Techron, change oil every 5000 kms and follow Porsche maintenance schedule.

i have almost exclusively used Porsche dealers for service. About a year ago, CEL came on, took car to dealer who reported that code was history for cylinder 1 misfire. They could not determine cause, so moved cyl 1 plug to 2 to see if misfire moved after further driving. Eventually CEL cam back, took it back to dealer that reported code was still cyl 1 misfire. Dealer then moved ignition coil from cyl 1 - 2 to again see if code moved after further driving. Eventually CEL came back on, took it to dealer who said there was no code, so they cancelled code and told me to keep driving and report back if CEL came back on. It should be noted that car was not running rough or stumbling. I did come to note that the CEL only came on immediately after startup in the morning but car ran fine. So, the CEL came back on and I went back to dealer and they reported that code was still just cylinder 1 misfire but but it was not misfiring when they had it hooked up. I told them I was getting a little tired, especially since every visit was costing me and they were unable to identify a problem. Ok, so when I took it in for oil change they suggested we should do a borescope to see if any issues with scores that may be contributing to improper combustion. I figured fine, since with all the hysteria about bore scoring I was interested to know if this was a thing with my car. They then report that borescope came back fine but they still have no idea about problem. So the service writer goes to dealer head mechanic who comes out to discuss.

He tells me that he suspects problem is electrical but that it could also be a bad injector. I ask about moving the injector to another cylinder but he says that is an expensive job and that he wants to take a close look at the car himself. He says he wants to do another borescope as he wants to see inside for himself. I point out that I already paid for this and perhaps he should just talk to his tech. He is adamant he wants to see for himself and that "they will work with me" to keep costs down. He says that if borescope clean, we should do a compression leakdown test and then if that is OK, then they will remove injector to check and clean it to see if that is problem. I suggest that since engine is not burning oil and otherwise running fine, why don't we just replace the cyl 1 injector and see if that fixes it. He tells me the injector costs about $450 plus several hours labour (so about $850 - $950 after taxes) and they "don't want to throw parts at the car without knowing what the problem is". This seems somewhat logical, so I am told, once again to drive it and if it comes back, call them to work out a cost and time for the borescope, compression, leakdown, injector check and clean. Three days later the CEL is back, so I call and they quote about $900 to do this work, which is not "fixing" anything but just looking for potential, but unlikely, problems. When I point this out, the service writer says we want to eliminate issues before we recommend a short block, meaning engine replacement. Why he even says this, when the car is working fine does not sit well with me.

Needless to say I am not happy and decide to take the car to a small indy shop that I take my 2019 Audi SQ5 to, since he also works on Porsche. I know he charges considerably less, so I figure I will see what he will charge for doing these borescope, compression and leakdown tests that Porsche says I need. He grabs his car scanner and says lets go for a drive. He hands me the scanner, punches the pedal and drives the car hard for about 10 minutes. He has me report engine cylinder roughness fluctuations and misfires while he drives. There are no misfires and the roughness indications are not significantly high but they are not even. He has me take a picture of the scanner results and then tells me to go buy a bottle of Lucas Deep Clean injector cleaner, put it in with about 1/4 tank of gas left in the car, drive for 50 kms and then come see him again. He says he feels it is an injector issue. 50 kms later I take the car back, we drive and scan it again but we both already know what the results will be, because the car is running noticeably smoother, especially at idle and low rpm driveoff. The scanner results and comparison confirms this. I ask him what I owe and he says don't worry about it.

Long story longer, the car is running better, quieter and smoother and the CEL has not come back on. The problem seems to have been a dirty injector which is perhaps not unreasonable on a car with 96,000 kms. Total cost to deal with it was a $14 bottle of injector cleaner. Meanwhile, I have spent well over $1000 chasing my tail with the Porsche dealer who wanted me to spend yet another $1000 which still would likely not have solved my problem (other than the off car injector cleaning which they proposed doing last).

My question is, other than not using the dealer service department again, what would you say to the dealer? Here they are doing and recommending $1000's of dollars of unproductive work, even talking about engine replacement, when a simple low cost injector cleaner fuel additive should have been a reasonable first option.

reacp911

why don't you name the indy?

lowbee

and name the dealer too so we can avoid taking our cars there. Thx

Michat

I was hoping for some input about how to handle this in respect to dealer vs just tearing the dealer down online. I am no gearhead, so I was hoping to hear wether the situation described is at all reasonable

reacp911

the indy helps you out but you don't give him a plug?

bcrdukes

I would approach the situation a little bit differently from the perspective of whether or not the mechanics at dealerships really mechanics anymore?

I am confident there are some passionate and amazing mechanics that work at dealerships, but they really are following a pre-determined manual on how to repair a vehicle. Any deviation from that is not part of the business model which is where your independent mechanic comes in to play. His input and solution to your problem came with experience and out-of-the-box thinking, which was limited at your dealership. Are all mechanics dealerships bad? No. But you can count on them not being able to do what your independent mechanic did for you. Or rather, the chances are slim.

Adam144

Seems like a nice indy, but if he's smart at running a business "you owe me for the years, not the hours".

Years of working on cars taught him what to look for in diagnosing.

As for the dealership, they're all like that. Every brand. Protocol, procedure, profit.

Michat

Thanks for the responses.

The thing is that the dealers are charging about $190 an hour. With those rates, should one not expect a level of professionalism and education to diagnose problems and recommend cost effective solutions? If not, what are we paying for?

In my case, the indy within 15 minutes had a suggestion which, as it turns out, solved the issue. On the other hand, it seems the dealer, rather than go to what now seems an obvious first step (clean the injectors) was just recommending test after test, which now look like they were only designed to test the limits of my wallet. if this is the level of service and the mechanics are so poorly trained, they should not be charging $190 an hour. In most other trades and professions you have apprentices, journeymen and masters or junior or senior roles (law and accounting) which charge out at different rates. When you pay top dollar you expect high competence and efficiency that comes with experience. Yet shops are charging the highest rates and, in my case at least, delivering less in terms of competence and efficient use of time. That makes no sense.

I will talk to the dealer, which I am sure will be a waste of time with a bunch of excuses.

I live in Victoria and the indy is Gary at Forward Auto.

rideau

Sorry to hear about your bad experience at the dealer and am glad your problem was solved.
I had the opposite experience at Downtown Porsche in Toronto recently. Check engine light went on and they diagnosed and solved the problem. Unfortunately, the check engine light appeared the next day. Back to Downtown Porsche and issue was reexamined. The correct problem was solved......all good now.
When I went to pick the car up and was presented with the invoice, visit #1 charges had been proactively refunded in full without any input from me and I was only charged for the correct repair.
I would certainly make your issue known to management. Additionally, have you received a service satisfaction survey via email from Porsche? I would ask that they arrange to have one sent to you. Our service advisor provides a copy of the survey with the invoice. His cover letter states "Please take the time to look over the attached sample of the survey you will be receiving. If you feel that you cannot complete the survey with a perfect score, please do not hesitate to contact me before you begin the survey so I can ensure your complete satisfaction". I wonder if dealers are graded by Porsche on service satisfaction levels. Does anyone know?

Nate Tempest

Except that this way where's Michat going to be bringing his car every time it needs service in the future? That seems worth more than charging him for a test drive and a bit of advice.

gcurnew

You'll receive a survey from Porsche Canada about your "recent service experience." That's where you tell your story. My understanding is there are meaningful ramifications to a dealer getting bad responses on surveys. At this point I wouldn't even bother talking with the dealer, although after Porche talks to them you can expect a "what can we do" call from the Service Manager or someone else at the dealership.

Turbodan

so the dealer head mechanic nailed it when he said change the injector. you should tell him he was correct. they don't clean them at the dealer...but they do have excellent espresso just like they won't plug a tire

Michat

No. As i said in my original post, the head mech said he thought it was electrical and that it could also be an injector. He then recommended another borescope, a leak down test, a compression test and if all that checked out, then pull the injector.

So, the point is that if a faulty injector was a possibility, running a $14 injector cleaner should be a reasonable first step. Especially on a well maintained car with no other issues. Not nearly $1000 in tests that fix nothing.

reacp911

are you joking, or is this a reading comprehension issue?

rideau

Spoke to my service advisor today. I asked him about the survey. He said that ompleted surveys are sent to dealer from Porsche and service advisor is graded based on survey results.I am not sure what else they use survey results for...... Premier Dealer status perhaps? I note that I have been to my dealer for various service items a number of times this year and have only received one survey request via email from Porsche.