Offered a 993 RS conversion in Taipei - thoughts?
10-26-2009, 09:08 AM
#1
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Offered a 993 RS conversion in Taipei - thoughts?
been offered a 993 with a conversion into a 3.8RS.
Shell was arena red, but full respray to polar silver. engine conversion to 3.8.
Looking for a 993 has been futile and this is offered at strong money (NT1.8m). Am awaiting for more information about what has been done on the car, suspension, brakes, clutch, flywheel etc. and then arrange a test drive/viewing.
what will be the pros and cons of a non-standard car, if i am planning to hold for 2 years and sell it when i leave taiwan for another posting somewhere else in the world?
seen a 1991 964 black / tiptronic for sale with another car dealer as well as a 1989 black 911/G50 manual for about the same money. suffice to say, service history or any history is non existence. is this the norm here on second hand cars or this type or just this dealer?
Anyone wanting to part with their 993, PM me please,
Shell was arena red, but full respray to polar silver. engine conversion to 3.8.
Looking for a 993 has been futile and this is offered at strong money (NT1.8m). Am awaiting for more information about what has been done on the car, suspension, brakes, clutch, flywheel etc. and then arrange a test drive/viewing.
what will be the pros and cons of a non-standard car, if i am planning to hold for 2 years and sell it when i leave taiwan for another posting somewhere else in the world?
seen a 1991 964 black / tiptronic for sale with another car dealer as well as a 1989 black 911/G50 manual for about the same money. suffice to say, service history or any history is non existence. is this the norm here on second hand cars or this type or just this dealer?
Anyone wanting to part with their 993, PM me please,
10-31-2009, 01:58 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Hi Jamie,
So you're still looking......!
Who did the work on the 3.8 conversion? Shame it was resprayed I guess but again it all depends on who did the work and how much was done towards the "RS" conversion - seam welding etc etc
Service histories don't exist here unfortunatley especially once the car drops out of the warranty loop but most people in the "enthusiasts" end of the market will know a car of this significance I think. A-San in Neihu is a reliable guy so if it was him the car should be fine but there are several others too.
I like the sound of the black '89 personally. Who has that for sale?
Mark
So you're still looking......!
Who did the work on the 3.8 conversion? Shame it was resprayed I guess but again it all depends on who did the work and how much was done towards the "RS" conversion - seam welding etc etc
Service histories don't exist here unfortunatley especially once the car drops out of the warranty loop but most people in the "enthusiasts" end of the market will know a car of this significance I think. A-San in Neihu is a reliable guy so if it was him the car should be fine but there are several others too.
I like the sound of the black '89 personally. Who has that for sale?
Mark
11-02-2009, 09:43 AM
#3
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi mark,
good to hear from you.
as the U2 song goes "i still haven't found ......"
i got to know of the conversion from |GMS (German motor sports) based in nankang. they carried out the work but i havent had the chance to go over to kick the tyres but their blog provides some detail. seems like an interesting project, perhaps similar to that undertaken by Tognola in the UK. Links: http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/gms-taiwa...ev=-1&next=393
As for the black 89/g50, i found it on the www.usedcarnews.com.tw website. i think it is also on yahoo auction. the dealer is based in tungho/neihu area and frankly the car has been for sale for a while at NT750k asking. if you are interested, checkout the link: http://used.carnews.com/index.php?Mo...62111&Hits=Add
the 964 is also there (same dealer) and the has a damaged but repaired front end, not sure how bad dthe front collision was . mileage is clearly suspect as the meter had stopped working and the advertisement is that the car only has 50k miles on the clock. obviously if the meter had stopped at 50k many moons ago!!! a lot of half truths, so caveat emptor applies.
jamie
good to hear from you.
as the U2 song goes "i still haven't found ......"
i got to know of the conversion from |GMS (German motor sports) based in nankang. they carried out the work but i havent had the chance to go over to kick the tyres but their blog provides some detail. seems like an interesting project, perhaps similar to that undertaken by Tognola in the UK. Links: http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/gms-taiwa...ev=-1&next=393
As for the black 89/g50, i found it on the www.usedcarnews.com.tw website. i think it is also on yahoo auction. the dealer is based in tungho/neihu area and frankly the car has been for sale for a while at NT750k asking. if you are interested, checkout the link: http://used.carnews.com/index.php?Mo...62111&Hits=Add
the 964 is also there (same dealer) and the has a damaged but repaired front end, not sure how bad dthe front collision was . mileage is clearly suspect as the meter had stopped working and the advertisement is that the car only has 50k miles on the clock. obviously if the meter had stopped at 50k many moons ago!!! a lot of half truths, so caveat emptor applies.
jamie
11-03-2009, 04:26 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Hi Jamie,
The 3.8 looks interesting from the blog at least. They have a pretty good rep. locally I think and it looks like the parts are legit too. Its a shame the car was resprayed to silver IMO but again it looks like it was done pretty well. Don't know about the price but I suppose if you were to convert a 993 to 3.8 spec it would cost you a good part of that price in any case so it may not be a collectors item but could be a really good driver. the TT ones go for well more than this as you know.
If you plan to go along and have a look I'd like to tag along if that's ok - would be good to meet up at some point in any case!
THe 3.2/G50 looks ok but has been around for a while perhaps because the price is maybe on the high end - not sure but it looks quite tidy in the pics. Could be a great project but not at that price I guess.
The 964 is not my cup of tea - tiptronic etc also that interior would get me every day but thats personal. Also for a '91 I think its got the later s/wheel, mirrors and dash knee pad if that means anything.
Keep in touch anyway, glad you haven't given up..!
Cheers
Mark
The 3.8 looks interesting from the blog at least. They have a pretty good rep. locally I think and it looks like the parts are legit too. Its a shame the car was resprayed to silver IMO but again it looks like it was done pretty well. Don't know about the price but I suppose if you were to convert a 993 to 3.8 spec it would cost you a good part of that price in any case so it may not be a collectors item but could be a really good driver. the TT ones go for well more than this as you know.
If you plan to go along and have a look I'd like to tag along if that's ok - would be good to meet up at some point in any case!
THe 3.2/G50 looks ok but has been around for a while perhaps because the price is maybe on the high end - not sure but it looks quite tidy in the pics. Could be a great project but not at that price I guess.
The 964 is not my cup of tea - tiptronic etc also that interior would get me every day but thats personal. Also for a '91 I think its got the later s/wheel, mirrors and dash knee pad if that means anything.
Keep in touch anyway, glad you haven't given up..!
Cheers
Mark
11-08-2009, 08:04 AM
#5
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi mark,
more posting on the blog of the car in question. i will set up a time to view in the coming week. just come off a busy schedule, so perhaps time to kick the tyres. will get organised and let you know when i have fix a time to see the car.
know anyone that can do a prepurchase inspection?
jamie
more posting on the blog of the car in question. i will set up a time to view in the coming week. just come off a busy schedule, so perhaps time to kick the tyres. will get organised and let you know when i have fix a time to see the car.
know anyone that can do a prepurchase inspection?
jamie
11-16-2009, 10:32 AM
#6
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Went to nangang to see the car, and here's some detail. appreciate for any petrolheads reading this in taipei to give their 2 cents worth:
1. can a tiptronic box handles 300 bhp?
1996 version, varioram but tiptronic (some compromise will have to be made here, hmm!)
Does anyone know if the tiptronic to handle the extra bhp since RS was only made for manual cars?
2. mechanical valve lifter - pros and cons?
- fitted on the car rather hydraulics lifters., and hence has a rather mechanical sound. whether the tap is due to further adjustments required, not so sure.
how frequent will this valve lifters have to be adjusted and will this be an engine out job?
3. Bosch motronic DME replaced
- the EPROM chip had been changed/modified, but not sure what type pof chip that was installed
- how do i confirm if it the 2.10.1 version for the RS
- not sure if the wiring harness from engine bay to the DME relay was also changed
4. VIN number - VIN plate missing from the front window slot
not sure why but looks like the windscreen is a new one (not a sekurit screen which came with the original european model). the VIN under the front boot is there and seems to confirm the 1996 model year
all other labels in the car is not there due to being stripped for repaint (under the bonnet for options code , colour code label etc)
is there any way else to check the validity / provenance of this car with VIN tag/all labels missing
5. documentation for the RS project
- asked for invoices / documents for all the parts that was installed in the car. not sure whether there is sufficient box file of documents
6. Service history
- not sure whether there will be any documentation here to corroborate mileage. the car has done 72,000km. is there any way to find out from the public records? annual emmission, road tax renewals?
7. ownership
paperwork seems to be consistent, VIN /chassis number ties to a 1996 model year.
understand that this car was owned by 2 doctors, imported into taiwan in 1997 but recorded as a model year 1997. Car was then acquired as a spare car to an imported Japanese version 993 CS (also arena red) , to get some car registration clearance with the authorities. The car therefore was sat in a garage for almost 12 months before the RS conversion took place.
the car has been sold to a another owner who is now looking to sell it on after having the paintwork done. the paintwork is done to a high standard.
8. reason for current owner to sell?
wants to let this go since prefers a more modern car. understand that he wants a 997 , and has asked for the garage to look for potential buyers.
9 Tyres/rims
- speedlines rims all round (printed speedlines on the side of the rims for authenticity), general good condition with a few kerb scuffs,
- new rubbers required (how much does a set of michelin or contis cost? NT50k?)
- stock suspension (was on pss9 but removed and fitted with stock (not a new one though)
10. Brakes
- pagid brake pads (it does screech)
- stock 993 brake discs (does it need to be upgraded to handle the extra bhp?
overall, still tempted despite being a tiptronic and lack of documentation to back up the car. had asked if the garage will be willing to give a 12 months parts and labour warranty for this car.
1. can a tiptronic box handles 300 bhp?
1996 version, varioram but tiptronic (some compromise will have to be made here, hmm!)
Does anyone know if the tiptronic to handle the extra bhp since RS was only made for manual cars?
2. mechanical valve lifter - pros and cons?
- fitted on the car rather hydraulics lifters., and hence has a rather mechanical sound. whether the tap is due to further adjustments required, not so sure.
how frequent will this valve lifters have to be adjusted and will this be an engine out job?
3. Bosch motronic DME replaced
- the EPROM chip had been changed/modified, but not sure what type pof chip that was installed
- how do i confirm if it the 2.10.1 version for the RS
- not sure if the wiring harness from engine bay to the DME relay was also changed
4. VIN number - VIN plate missing from the front window slot
not sure why but looks like the windscreen is a new one (not a sekurit screen which came with the original european model). the VIN under the front boot is there and seems to confirm the 1996 model year
all other labels in the car is not there due to being stripped for repaint (under the bonnet for options code , colour code label etc)
is there any way else to check the validity / provenance of this car with VIN tag/all labels missing
5. documentation for the RS project
- asked for invoices / documents for all the parts that was installed in the car. not sure whether there is sufficient box file of documents
6. Service history
- not sure whether there will be any documentation here to corroborate mileage. the car has done 72,000km. is there any way to find out from the public records? annual emmission, road tax renewals?
7. ownership
paperwork seems to be consistent, VIN /chassis number ties to a 1996 model year.
understand that this car was owned by 2 doctors, imported into taiwan in 1997 but recorded as a model year 1997. Car was then acquired as a spare car to an imported Japanese version 993 CS (also arena red) , to get some car registration clearance with the authorities. The car therefore was sat in a garage for almost 12 months before the RS conversion took place.
the car has been sold to a another owner who is now looking to sell it on after having the paintwork done. the paintwork is done to a high standard.
8. reason for current owner to sell?
wants to let this go since prefers a more modern car. understand that he wants a 997 , and has asked for the garage to look for potential buyers.
9 Tyres/rims
- speedlines rims all round (printed speedlines on the side of the rims for authenticity), general good condition with a few kerb scuffs,
- new rubbers required (how much does a set of michelin or contis cost? NT50k?)
- stock suspension (was on pss9 but removed and fitted with stock (not a new one though)
10. Brakes
- pagid brake pads (it does screech)
- stock 993 brake discs (does it need to be upgraded to handle the extra bhp?
overall, still tempted despite being a tiptronic and lack of documentation to back up the car. had asked if the garage will be willing to give a 12 months parts and labour warranty for this car.
11-17-2009, 06:05 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Hi Jamie,
I don't know enough about the 993 to be able to say on most of your points but....
I would be very suspicious of the missing VIN plate - thats the most important piece of identification on the car together with the engine number etc and there is no reason for it to have been removed at all. changing the windscreen doesn't affect the VIN plate for instance.
I also don't understand the solid lifters - I thought all 993's were hydraulic as it reduces noise and eliminates the yearly valve clearance check/reset. I'm not sure they are even interchangeable like that in which case is this the original engine for the car?
The documentation for the car should at least include the import documents and the ownership docs for the current owner - they will have the original VIN and engine number on them so you could check this against the car. I think there is a way to check previous DMV inspections which have to be done every year or perhaps every 6 months for this age of car.
You're not letting your impatience override the reality I hope? Can't personally get to grips with the tip transmission and the lack of papers/vin etc would make me walk away unless I was going to track it or rebuild it completely.
If you want a pre purchase inspection done I have a friend at the main dealers who might be able to do it for you on the side and who also might have better access to vin records etc
Got any pics of the thing? Would be interesting to see it anyway.
Cheers
Mark
I don't know enough about the 993 to be able to say on most of your points but....
I would be very suspicious of the missing VIN plate - thats the most important piece of identification on the car together with the engine number etc and there is no reason for it to have been removed at all. changing the windscreen doesn't affect the VIN plate for instance.
I also don't understand the solid lifters - I thought all 993's were hydraulic as it reduces noise and eliminates the yearly valve clearance check/reset. I'm not sure they are even interchangeable like that in which case is this the original engine for the car?
The documentation for the car should at least include the import documents and the ownership docs for the current owner - they will have the original VIN and engine number on them so you could check this against the car. I think there is a way to check previous DMV inspections which have to be done every year or perhaps every 6 months for this age of car.
You're not letting your impatience override the reality I hope? Can't personally get to grips with the tip transmission and the lack of papers/vin etc would make me walk away unless I was going to track it or rebuild it completely.
If you want a pre purchase inspection done I have a friend at the main dealers who might be able to do it for you on the side and who also might have better access to vin records etc
Got any pics of the thing? Would be interesting to see it anyway.
Cheers
Mark
Trending Topics
11-17-2009, 10:36 AM
#8
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mark
some pics of the car. good advise, i don't need to rush. if you are available, i will organise for us to see the car week after next, once i am back from hk.
there is a 993 turbo for sale. know this car?
http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/d43470541
some pics of the car. good advise, i don't need to rush. if you are available, i will organise for us to see the car week after next, once i am back from hk.
there is a 993 turbo for sale. know this car?
http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/d43470541
11-18-2009, 04:04 AM
#9
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just been to see the 993 Turbo, 1997 model , US model, imported into taiwan perhaps 4 years ago apparently by an american. No import papers available though
Artic silver, black leather (ruffled) interior, comfort seats, PSS9, Turbo hollow spoke wheels, K16 turbo (408 bhp). Interior and exterior is in very good condition.
VIN tag/options tab under the bonnet/colour code label that you expect to see is all there.
30,000km on the current meter and understood from the seller that the mileage before the meter was changed was 20,000 miles. so between the two, I make it to be 62,000km for a 12 year old car. clutch feels light and the car drove very well (no rattles and shakes, all feels tight and solid).
Engine was rebuild over a year ago by porsche opc, understood that there were leaks and the block was opened up and overhauled.
Asking NT2.88m
Hmmmm......normally aspirated or a turbo?
Artic silver, black leather (ruffled) interior, comfort seats, PSS9, Turbo hollow spoke wheels, K16 turbo (408 bhp). Interior and exterior is in very good condition.
VIN tag/options tab under the bonnet/colour code label that you expect to see is all there.
30,000km on the current meter and understood from the seller that the mileage before the meter was changed was 20,000 miles. so between the two, I make it to be 62,000km for a 12 year old car. clutch feels light and the car drove very well (no rattles and shakes, all feels tight and solid).
Engine was rebuild over a year ago by porsche opc, understood that there were leaks and the block was opened up and overhauled.
Asking NT2.88m
Hmmmm......normally aspirated or a turbo?
11-18-2009, 12:38 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
just been to see the 993 Turbo, 1997 model , US model, imported into taiwan perhaps 4 years ago apparently by an american. No import papers available though
Artic silver, black leather (ruffled) interior, comfort seats, PSS9, Turbo hollow spoke wheels, K16 turbo (408 bhp). Interior and exterior is in very good condition.
VIN tag/options tab under the bonnet/colour code label that you expect to see is all there.
30,000km on the current meter and understood from the seller that the mileage before the meter was changed was 20,000 miles. so between the two, I make it to be 62,000km for a 12 year old car. clutch feels light and the car drove very well (no rattles and shakes, all feels tight and solid).
Engine was rebuild over a year ago by porsche opc, understood that there were leaks and the block was opened up and overhauled.
Asking NT2.88m
Hmmmm......normally aspirated or a turbo?
Artic silver, black leather (ruffled) interior, comfort seats, PSS9, Turbo hollow spoke wheels, K16 turbo (408 bhp). Interior and exterior is in very good condition.
VIN tag/options tab under the bonnet/colour code label that you expect to see is all there.
30,000km on the current meter and understood from the seller that the mileage before the meter was changed was 20,000 miles. so between the two, I make it to be 62,000km for a 12 year old car. clutch feels light and the car drove very well (no rattles and shakes, all feels tight and solid).
Engine was rebuild over a year ago by porsche opc, understood that there were leaks and the block was opened up and overhauled.
Asking NT2.88m
Hmmmm......normally aspirated or a turbo?
Actually that sounds really great - I'm jealous.
Mark
11-20-2009, 09:55 AM
#11
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi mark
the registration is 7993VF,
yes, please if you have an opc contact. i haven't been to see them yet to see if they have any cars. are they located somehwere in neihu?
i am travelling next week, so will think about whether this one is it! i have my turbo up for sale in London, at present. mkt has tanked even for the turbos.
j
the registration is 7993VF,
yes, please if you have an opc contact. i haven't been to see them yet to see if they have any cars. are they located somehwere in neihu?
i am travelling next week, so will think about whether this one is it! i have my turbo up for sale in London, at present. mkt has tanked even for the turbos.
j
11-20-2009, 10:12 PM
#12
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tienmu, Taipei; London, England
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Jamie,
I don't know enough about the 993 to be able to say on most of your points but....
I would be very suspicious of the missing VIN plate - thats the most important piece of identification on the car together with the engine number etc and there is no reason for it to have been removed at all. changing the windscreen doesn't affect the VIN plate for instance.
I also don't understand the solid lifters - I thought all 993's were hydraulic as it reduces noise and eliminates the yearly valve clearance check/reset. I'm not sure they are even interchangeable like that in which case is this the original engine for the car?
The documentation for the car should at least include the import documents and the ownership docs for the current owner - they will have the original VIN and engine number on them so you could check this against the car. I think there is a way to check previous DMV inspections which have to be done every year or perhaps every 6 months for this age of car.
You're not letting your impatience override the reality I hope? Can't personally get to grips with the tip transmission and the lack of papers/vin etc would make me walk away unless I was going to track it or rebuild it completely.
If you want a pre purchase inspection done I have a friend at the main dealers who might be able to do it for you on the side and who also might have better access to vin records etc
Got any pics of the thing? Would be interesting to see it anyway.
Cheers
Mark
I don't know enough about the 993 to be able to say on most of your points but....
I would be very suspicious of the missing VIN plate - thats the most important piece of identification on the car together with the engine number etc and there is no reason for it to have been removed at all. changing the windscreen doesn't affect the VIN plate for instance.
I also don't understand the solid lifters - I thought all 993's were hydraulic as it reduces noise and eliminates the yearly valve clearance check/reset. I'm not sure they are even interchangeable like that in which case is this the original engine for the car?
The documentation for the car should at least include the import documents and the ownership docs for the current owner - they will have the original VIN and engine number on them so you could check this against the car. I think there is a way to check previous DMV inspections which have to be done every year or perhaps every 6 months for this age of car.
You're not letting your impatience override the reality I hope? Can't personally get to grips with the tip transmission and the lack of papers/vin etc would make me walk away unless I was going to track it or rebuild it completely.
If you want a pre purchase inspection done I have a friend at the main dealers who might be able to do it for you on the side and who also might have better access to vin records etc
Got any pics of the thing? Would be interesting to see it anyway.
Cheers
Mark
agree about the missing vin plate...selling on will be a big problem in an already smal market. curiously i saw a youtube posting of another arena red C2S which i saw when i went to the shop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqNy7LQ3wcg
that car is immaculate, stick shift and is the japenese import. it carries the same registration plate as the RS conversion.
