Hoping to have the car in SITT trim by the 26/2 Twilight session. If not, then it will be a surprise on 7/3 when we head off to Cape Reinga. Time seems plentiful now but I know how quickly weeks blow past while you wait for parts etc.

Doug, you should budget just enough to buy a red 964 that is all done:cheers:

Seriously, I have no intention of tracking the CS, other than being on track for touring events like the SITT. It will be totally stock with road tyres and no extra camber or suspension mods. No doubt it will be fun but it is very definitely my road car.

The 944 on the other hand is a completely different beast. Still have a smile every session yet heaps still to learn to exploit its full potential. I can see a hankering for a bit more HP but the balance is so much fun. The fact it can be driven to the track is a bonus.

While I'd love a Flat 6 at the track, knowing that I'd be redlining it to every shift means inevitably something's going to give and the prospect of a $15k bill is a far bigger lump to swallow than a $4k replacement for the 944. Man maths not required!

At the rate you are flogging bits off it I'm not sure it will be 'all done'......:icon107:

Doug. Some good ideas here. I believe you can land a spyder this year well under 80K. Im not sure how much your boxster is worth but lets say 40K. Thats 40K or less to change over. The Spyder is track ready, higher performance and slower depreciation. Over 5 years including modding the boxster to be track reliable and faster you will break even if depreciation is included.

However the above also makes the idea of buying a 964 for the track very compelling. For $40K or under (same delta) you buy an appreciating classic that's strong enough for the track. Your maintenance costs will be higher but your depreciation non existent. You still retain your boxster for daily use. You also have the perfect platform to do a back date long hood hotrod conversion in the future and if you are concerned about risk you never extend you risk on the track beyond $40K.

To me the final piece of the puzzle is how fast you want to go. Thers a guy I know in the USA with a PDK spyder who is a very talented wheelman. Hes well documented as to keeping the 997 GT3s honest at his local track.Only upgrade is tyres and pads and 30K of weight saving (exhaust). Guys are still amazed watching the videos at how fast he can circulate with that platform well set up. The PDK helps, but the Spyder (he has the bucket seats etc) is well set up to start with.

At HD I have absolutely no reservation that the Spyder well driven will be firmly in the late 1.16s. I believe a well set up 964 like Daves with all the fruit can get to mid/early 1.18s. Your boxster S probably similar to the 964 maybe a tad better (early 1.18s).

If you want to really push on the Spyder platform will give you more room to grow without the spend. The 964 will be great value and fun. The boxster you are probably 6 months away from out growing then you will need to spend 10-15K on reliability modifications, suspension and brake upgrades to take it beyond the 964 capability. Of course it depends on your own rate of learning and capability but assuming you are continuing to improve that's where I see it....

The car you have is lovely. But its the least durable platform for the track today and the most compromised ultimate platform (roll-over safety, chassis rigidity etc). Infact without rear roll hoops you cant attend any Motorsport event in that car even regularity trials I believe.

If it were my money Id stop now before Ive started. Leave it stock. Look for another car to replace or have as dedicated track toy. If fiscal concerns are high on the agenda then this would be the most prudent move.

Me too with the 993. But unlike Pete, I can't afford new machinery and stock suspension in 993's is only any good for around 50,000km. The cost of PSS10's compared to standard is about $1K more, so it's a no brainer.....


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Pete. I understand what your saying but there is a price to pay for a "soul" car and having owned for a few years (25000 km) as a daily driver (and once on track - Puke PCNZ DE) a 968 6 speed I personally did not find the experience satisfying for me. Faster and more balanced it may be but Id hands down rather budget slightly higher running costs (by the way the 968 was as expensive to keep on the road than the 993) to own and track a 911 all day long. Just something about running a 911 race car that appeals to me personally so much more than a 944. Each to their own. Just saying....

When I met Michael in Hamilton last year, he related the cost of 944 ownership over the years. I won't say the number as that's info to disclose if he wants to, but needless to say it is not a whole lot less than my spend on the 964 to date. There is no Porsche bargain.

BTW Micheal, not sure why it matters but I couldn't help think that you and Paul's C3 would have been a good combination long term. Not the right timing but it won't depreciate over the time that your priorities are more family oriented.

John. Jamie (Kiwi Carguy) and I both jumped into 944S2/968 about the same time in 2004 as Daily Drivers and both had a similar view on the running costs. The belts/water pump are a 2-3 year 30k km deal and its not cheap work parts and labour. Plus they are old cars with all the usual failing parts. Look up "rear pinion gear failure", common issue on the old transaxle mounted gearbox and weep at the cost. This is an issue that's more a "when" it happens not an "if" it happens and is essentially a 5K job.

Paul. I think you are doing your man maths again mate. If you take the cost of your 993, add teh suspension, service work and other items you will do before SITT you are pretty much close to Petes outlay on a Cayman S gen 2 landed, registered and rocking to go.

No free lunches here folks.

Anyone watching V8 Supertourers at Highlands on CRC at the moment - scary in the wet! Lets hope we get a dry day.

Has crossed my mind many times.

Yes, please hang on to the drivers seat a little longer :-P

Yep but we're not comparing apples with apples - my 944 is a stripped, caged track machine. Its had a s**t load of money spent on it (by someone else) to make it fit for purpose - hence is no doubt a different 'experience' than one used once for a DE on track. Driving too the track is a pretty s**t experience but then that's not the point.

I have no doubt I'll be back in a 911 at some stage and fully appreciate the lure of 'soul' cars but for now I'm fully enjoying the change and an appreciation of some of the other things that Porsche has done well.

Sorry Pete. I wasnt meaning "soul" in that sense. What I mean is driving a 944/968 fast is in my mind akin to driving a M3 fast (around a track). Different lines, similar balance, different traction, dynamic, sound, vibration and smell that driving a 911 fast around a track.

Im talking stripped race cars or stock road cars, like for like, apples for apples, driving a 911 fast is quite a different technique and experience than driving other front engined cars I have found. Ive never driven a stripped out race car in either genre, but I cant imagine the handling dynamics and quirks between the two differing a whole load more. I found the 968 very different to drive fast on road and the limited 20-30 laps I did in the afternoon at a DE at Puke than the 968. In the two day Porsche advanced driving course at Mount Cotton I found similar differences between the boxsters and the 911s (although admit I found the boxster a more stable platform than even the 968).

As I said its an individualist thing, but today I would likely consider a 911 platform for a Porsche race car personally as its the 911 Im in love with at Porsche. That said I reckon the Cayman S/R & Spyder would make a very competent track/road duty compromise for many. The new Cayman R when it surfaces may even get me thinking outside the 911.

Thanks for your thoughts Macca. Don't quite get your comment about "without rear roll hoops..." The boxster has built in roll hoops which are good for lower level MSNZ events, regularity trial, sprints. I've been in them with PCNZ regularity trial and single car sprints. Can't go in dual car sprints without a tin top or roll cage though. So what events can't I go in with a boxster/spider vs a coup?