Manifold

I do think it's unreasonable for them to be charging a $50 annual fee. Fees should be on a per service basis, and generally very low. Getting paid to keep someone's name on a list isn't reasonable.

ExMB

Level 1 costs $50 a year and you are not allowed to instruct on track; you are just allowed to speak the common lingo. You have to be level 2 to instruct on track. Does that mean you now have to pay extra yearly dues for each level? Are those dues then accumulative? Each hard card, sticker, etc would have to identify the level. And how would that work on yearly renewal?



I can see the benefit of a structured training program for all instructors. But administering it via motorsportreg seems 1-sided: i.e. not every PCA organization uses motorsportreg. A lot of them use clubregistration. Would there now be a courtesy agreement in place between those 2?



Just looked and the online level 1 fee for taking the level 1 course is $50. So that makes it a total of $100 with yearly dues.
I guess that means I have $100 burning a hole in my pocket and want to give it to somebody for the privilege of speaking the lingo.

jscott82

I haven't read the article... But I would assume since PCA (BMW, etc) is the beneficiary, they would be the ones footing the bill.

Why in the world would I pay to work for someone else for free???

Now I read the article: Certainly implies the individual would pay.. That makes no sense. Organizations are having enough trouble attracting good volunteer instructors. If this were to go in I would simply quit instructing. I do it for sense of giving back and being part of the "team". I'm already giving a good bit of my free time, not to mention the added risk... asking me to pay real $$ is the straw that would break my back.

On second thought: I guess it opens the market for "professional" instructors who could charge a fee for their services. Not for me, but I can see how this would appeal to some folks...

Matt Romanowski

Not to get sidetracked, but the FIA rates tracks. http://www.fia.com/circuit-safety

Manifold

Yes, but they rate very few tracks in the US where DEs are conducted:

http://www.fia.com/file/48098/download?token=Jo8fHaGi

cello

And so it begins..........

Doubt it. The PCA has "nationally trained" instructors, not 'certified instructors', for liability reasons as there is more than a mere semantic difference. IIRC the PCA went to great lengths to NOT use the verbiage "certification" in either the national program materials or the class; and I recall Pete T expressly reiterating that the program was not a certification in any sense of the word...

jscott82

The more I think about it. I kinda like the idea...

If one were to invest in continuing education and annual certification, you would be considered a professional and should reasonably expect to be paid for your services.

Having a full staff of professional instructors held to a much higher standard would definitely elevate the sport. The downside would be added cost... As a certified professional, $50/hr (800/wkend) would seem reasonable compensation.

Again, not for me, but I would happily step aside and let the pros take over instructional duties.

TXE36

In that case, I disagree with Dave. Below meh, as meh is too generous.

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

My thoughts mirror the posts by Jdistefa and ExMB

scotelkins

Hello,

Obviously totally new here but with the discussion of the MSF program I thought I would jump on and offer to answer any questions you might have.

First of all this program exists because the HPDE community requested it (we didn't invent it) and as an independent body we have organized and structured the program with consultation from some of the biggest players in the community. Many have pre taken the Level 1 tests to insure we are on the right track.

Led by Ross Bentley the curriculum is actually based on your individual organizations internal training programs, this is the core of Level 2. Levels 3-6 are advanced programs.

MSF is a facilitator for a centralized consistent program for all organizations. An yes we are a non-profit so we must charge a fee for the program.

If you have any other questions or comments about the program please feel free to reach out.

Thank you

Scot Elkins
COO - Motorsport Safety Foundation
scot@motorsport-safety.org

RickBetterley

Lots of negativity in this thread about this idea. Although I understand some of it, maybe its worth giving it a try? That's one reason I signed up - to see how it works. And I might learn something while I am at it.

Manifold

Some questions:

- Who specifically in the HPDE community asked for this?

- Which "biggest players" in the community were consulted?

- What is the position of PCA, BMW CCA, Chin, etc. regarding this certification program? IMO, for the certification to have credibility, the program needs to be officially endorsed and required by those organizations. Otherwise, there's not much incentive for instructors with those organizations to pursue an outside certification and spend $50/year for it.

I'm not trying to throw water on this. The concept is good, but proper implementation is key for it to be successful.

scotelkins

Manifold, thanks for the comments.

From the inception of this program we have been working with Chin, HOD, BMW, Lockton Insurance and Audi. Honestly PCA did not show national interest but we have "some" support from the regional level. All of these groups were invited to take the Level 1 course prior to release.

Each person we discussed it with was supportive and told us that the industry could use a central program such as this. That is why we are doing it.

We agree that proper implementation is key and honestly that is why we are on forums such as this to get feedback and to find out what we don't know.

The idea is for these groups and others to require it for the instructor groups. Some have agreed to require it, others are taking a "wait and see approach".

We do know that we will have an opportunity for continuous improvement and that is a target for this program. We have already made a number of changes based on feedback since we launched on Monday.

Thanks again for the comments.

Veloce Raptor

Per another poster here, does each level of certification cost an additional $50/year?

scotelkins

Each level does have a separate price but each level has different value added elements, for example, (we are still getting the final details together but) Level 2 will include a General Liability Insurance policy to cover an instructor while instructing.

We have not determined the costing for level 2-6 as of yet as we are still finalizing the curriculum requirements for 3-6. Level 2 cost will be determined by the Insurance Policy.

We have the Levels listed as annual but we are not sure that is a correct way to describe it. For example once you pass Level 1, you don't have to retake it each year, as you will typically progress to Level 2.

It might sound like a lot of "ifs" but we want to adjust and change the program to fit the market feedback and really create value for the program.

Again thanks for the comments.

Also I am in Europe this week so I may not be able to respond right away to questions/comments.