ML///

I think DEs are for drivers to become educated in high performance driving first and foremost. As a driver gains confidence and abilities, then I can see them learning more of what their car is capable of doing on a track. These events are supposed to be fun, but also focused on driving within the limits of the student, not the car.

Paul Solk

Thanks DT.

I think the beauty is that I am only in my 3rd year of this so it is STILL very new to me and I learn at least one thing every day I am either out there on track, being coached or studying so I am able bring that combination of wide eyed curiosity, fresh perspective and eagerness balanced with pragmatism, understanding and desire. Capability and execution are still up for debate

Like I said since day 1 I have believed that mutual communication with my instructor is imperative. Without it the day is a waste regardless of nannies.

ShakeNBake

I used to be pretty strongly in the camp of needing skills with car control to dance. But now I think about this a lot about the safety side of things. Turbo S vs Miata - food for thought on the consequences of a mistake without the backup of nannies. For someone who seems to be really intent on learning how to drive, it's a conversation about what car to buy and tires, not when to turn nannies off.

Turbo S is carrying a lot more energy that can be used make things uncomfortable. Good luck convincing the guy who bought a Turbo S to keep things under 120 when he is driving by himself.

Gofishracing

Yes- I believe PCA policy is leave them on. I use them as a learning tool if they come on with student. Cheaper to keep them on than track insurance.

Paul Solk

Another train of thought... Cirrus builds the SR GA aircraft with a parachute system just in case. It has already saved hundreds of lives and I am pretty sure nannies on the track have as well.

If you were a flight instructor would you force someone to disable the parachute so they can learn the ramifications of pilot error or would you quite possibly want to have that parachute there but teach them not to fly themselves into a situation where they need it? Would you force them to learn an engine out landing if they have an unforced engine shutdown on their 2nd lesson or be happy to pull the chute and discuss procedure on the ground in one piece instead of 22?

Veloce Raptor

FYI: most of the time Porsches factory test drivers including Walter Rohrl leave them on...

Paul Solk

With all due respect Walter Rohl has not been doing DE's for almost 3 years like me so we can't really compare his skill level to mine... He will get there though

RickBetterley

Exactly
I listened to Ross make the argument that current stability management is so sophisticated that it gives the driver a valuable indication of the car's limits, unlike older systems, which were often imposing themselves much too early and abruptly.
I'm in the 'leave them on and learn from them' camp in the most current cars.

LuigiVampa

Traction control as well? Are they programmed the same way as a street car?

I'm curious because I always heard that if you want to be fast you turn off traction control.

alanshutko

I don't know if they are programmed the same way, but here's an interesting quote about the Carrera GT:

winders

I guess it is a miracle that all the drivers with cars with no nannies at all ever came home alive or with cars not on flatbeds.......and that they ever learned to drive at all.

Jeez....how is even possible for me to race a old air-cooled 911 without nannies, power steering, ABS, etc.....

Veloce Raptor

Point missed

LuigiVampa

So does he use traction control only in the wet? Sure, I have used it in races in really bad conditions, also because it helps to get temperature into the brakes.

But does Rohrl use it in the dry as well?

winders

No, I did not miss the point. What I did was point out the fallacies in the arguments.

winders

I suspect most newer track drivers have no idea when nannies engage and what they do for them. The more transparent the nannies the more likely this is to be true. Also, unless the instructor is eyeing the dash constantly, he is not likely to know when nannies kick in.