krombacher

mmm.. but isn't a new LN motor like $20k-ish?

Gary R.

As I said, "Ideally".... never going to happen in my case.

ace37

Good baseline - makes it very easy to justify spending "only" $10-15k on your configuration 😁

Gary R.

Already have a spare motor on a pallet with LN IMS and all other tidbits done ready to bolt in...

CTS

I have hesitated to post about the cost of system because I am not even close to finalizing the kit price.

Right now, only 2 systems exist and they both are on cars that I own. I have the 3rd, 4th, and 5th systems in the works for customers and once those are done I will have a kit price for Boxsters.

I am willing to say today that the system costs considerably more than a used junkyard 2.5 liter Boxster engine and considerably less than a used junkyard 3.4 liter Cayman engine.

My own need for the system came from attempting to build a business around endurance racing Boxsters. The economics for me were very clear after having an engine explode 2.5 hours into the 2015 25hrs of Thunderhill race: I simply could not continue the business with the obvious oiling problem still in play.

I don't think anyone can run an M96 engine harder than we are running them. We are 2 races into our season and each of my cars has already run around 2000 miles, mostly at a flat out pace. Once the season is over, I will consider the system properly tested. That said, I won't be running the cars at Nurburgring in a snowstorm, or at Suzuka in 100 degree heat.

With all that in mind, I had to over engineer the system. I used the best quality and most expensive parts I could. I suspect there is more scavenge capacity than anyone will ever need. I probably could have used a pump that cost half as much.

Compromising any of that would have increased my and any user's risk of failure.

Mitigating the cost somewhat is that the system replaces or makes unnecessary an Accusump, deep sump, different swirl pots, Motorsport AOS, remote oil filter, or any other oil system modification. It appears so far that it may make an oil cooler upgrade unnecessary (I will know for sure after our first hot race). The system is designed to use widely available and cheap Mobil 1 oil. The system also includes an underdrive crank pulley.

I also have some work to do in the area of making the installation less time consuming.

I welcome your questions and comments.

Chris Cervelli
Cervelli Technical Service

krombacher

It sound like it avoids $1.5-$2k of oil system upgrades (components + Labour). It also stops you from having to replace your engine after your break it from cumulative oil pressure losses (which involves dropping your old motor out and putting a new one in). I think economically it will probably be a no brainer for those who race their cars.

Might want to create a pre-order list with deposits for your first orders ..

krombacher

Chris,
when you tried different sump designs back in 2016 - which design features did you change (at least at a high level)? You mentioned you tried a deeper oil pan. What else? Milled baffling in the pan, like Mantis pans?

cbracerx

Chris - loving this effort and the scientific method to assure it works and other "lesser" options are truly ineffective. It would be very helpful to know which of the deep sump's you tested was the "best" for those of us who cannot give up the A/C. I know it's probably impossible but a version that did not replace the A/C compressor would be glorious. Based on my car shown in the attachment, I don't know where it would go!

Unless.... You replaced the Power Steering Pump and we could put an electric one in the frunk to cover that (solves the overheating pump issue also). Just a thought for way down the road after the racers are all protected.

CTS

I built one very cool billet pan with the help of a friendly CNC machinist. It turned out beautifully and totally didn't work.

I also hacked together some modified horizontal baffles with trapdoors. One design had 4 trapdoors and a bunch of stationary walls. That also totally did not work. I thought the horizontal baffle was the correct way to go. After numerous iterations no pattern emerged.

The only variable that obviously did something was depth. Deeper is better, but as I said before the ground clearance disallows this. We destroyed or damaged at least 4 LN 2 qt deep sumps in 2015 and 2016.

I also made a transparent sump plate so I could look inside the engine as it was running. I used this only in the shop with the car stationary as it did not seal nearly well enough to use on track. With the car stationary, nothing much happens in there even with the engine held at 7000 rpms for 30 seconds.

My belief now is that under racing conditions there is very little oil in the pan.

Chris Cervelli
Cervelli Technical Service

turbochad

This video demonstrates how you know the wet sump just won't work under racing conditions (force diagrams in action). Sustained cornering followed by direction change is the same as tilting the engine at a 45deg angle and rotating it on axis. The pickup is no where near where the oil is at that point. One has to consider that the oil isn't significantly going into the the sump under racing conditions. The oil is mostly everywhere else at that point.

Porsche built this dyno to test all of the new hybrid oiling systems that they have been creating since the M9x disaster. It is a marvel to watch.

Coloradoheel

My team also races 2 Boxsters in WRL, and will compete against Chris and his team at every race this season (save one). We are closely watching this new dry sump system and are thus far very impressed.
If it weren't for some considerable off-season development costs in our own cars, I think we would have already placed an order for them (and likely will in the next off-season). I can certainly attest to the manufacturing quality, and performance thus far. Chris's reputation needs no bolstering.

For the gentleman that asked about power steering - we have converted our cars to Electroc power steering (system in the frunk).

krombacher

Chris,
Did you take any pictures or sketches of the baffle, wall, trap door designs that didn't work?

The Radium King

interested! interested in cost, design, and how it addresses the issues. i assume a belt-driven pump located in place of the ac compressor, a custom pan, an oil tank with defoaming, and some AN hoses. how many scavenge stages? where do you return the oil - i've read that the oem oil pump is sufficient but the issue is with the scavenge, so do you return the oil to the pump intake, or bypass it in some manner (you note in a previous post that you keep the oem pump in the system; perhaps the oem pump is robust enough that you are just running a scavenge system and the oem pump draws from the dry sump?)? aside from issues with scavenge from the oem 'semi-dry sump', i've read of issues of oil build-up in the heads during cornering due to the poor location of the two scavenge pumps there - how does the dry sump system address that - throw more oil at it until the scavenge pumps in the heads can recover?

thanks for building this; if timing works out this is going in my track build this winter.

hf1

As my shop is about to put in a 'new' used motor in my SPB after my old one failed in the last race of my FIRST (rookie) race weekend at Limerock (costing me the podium) shall I even bother with a deep sump at all? The dead engine was a new build, no deep sump, no accusump.

Do current SPB rules specifically prohibit a dry sump solution like Chris's? I'm assuming it's not an option for my ongoing engine swap before the WGI race. I'll just have to drive slower, I guess.

This SPB racing is starting to get pretty expensive for a 'cheap' class.

cbracerx

I'm interested in the same question but for different reasons (street car cannot lose the A/C compressor). Since my ride height is standard, I can handle a 2 qt extension, but don't want to make a bad choice on the windage tray design.