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Buttonwillow Past Times w/993 (2014-2016) welcome

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Old 11-15-2016, 12:49 AM
  #16
Greg Phillips
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Default BW Track 13 times

Originally Posted by Sword_of_Spirit View Post
Hello all,

I'm looking for "rough" data to gather on timing from 2014-present for Buttonwillow in a modded 993 (i've searched the inter webs and very little is given on timing and setup.....). I'll list mods and see if there are similar times. It was my first go and I was hitting anywhere from 2:03-2:07 (13CW)with a new car (100mi previous experience and new track with car). My experience is out in middy U.S. (RA, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Mid O).

95' 993
Touring Body Work
Semi Stripped interior
PSS10
Full RS Cushy Bits with various Monoball, Walrod Bushings, solid sides
Cup Box
RS fly and clutch
Full RS specific Big Reds w/Ferodos
Chipped Stock engine w/fabspeed x pipe and cats (not that it matters....)
Nitto NT01's

Any help will be appreciated as i'm sure there is a fair bit left on the table.

Thanks,
Michael
We just finished our 2016 Time Trial season at Buttonwillow this past weekend and were running #13 CW.
You can look on out website for times of the different drivers, Not only the timed laps but you can also click on the Lap Details and see all of the different laps for the weekend.
My best lap of the weekend was on a set of used Nitto NT01 in my 1982 911SC at 2:02.96. My mechanic/co-driver turned a 1:58.90.

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Old 11-15-2016, 02:12 AM
  #17
Martin S.
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Default PCA at Buttonwillow. Track Config Race #1 CW

Originally Posted by Greg Phillips View Post
We just finished our 2016 Time Trial season at Buttonwillow this past weekend and were running #13 CW.
You can look on out website for times of the different drivers, Not only the timed laps but you can also click on the Lap Details and see all of the different laps for the weekend. My best lap of the weekend was on a set of used Nitto NT01 in my 1982 911SC at 2:02.96. My mechanic/co-driver turned a 1:58.90.
Greg
The source of my confusion...I was comparing PORSCHE OWNERS CLUB (POC) Race times on Race #1 incorporating the "A-Section" and the Star Mazda Turn to the results PCA was producing on #13 CW. The PCA times, due to the shorter track configuration, 13CW VS Race 1 CW, are 6 to 8 seconds quicker, as they should be...I may need a new script for my glasses. So my typical Buttonwillow 2:10 could be as low as a 2:02..maybe a 2:04..on Nittos too. I feel better now. I am not quick, but I am consistent (Slow)...but there is always somebody slower, my only consolation.

The 993 has one thing going against it (Assuming it has short gears)...weight. I believe PCA minimum weight, including driver and gas, is 3,094. And presuming that the typical Sprint race will chew up 6 gallons of gas at 6.4 Lbs per gallon, the car will go out at 3,094 + (6 * 6.4) 38.4 Lbs, or 3,132 Lbs. That is heavy.

Last edited by Martin S.; 11-15-2016 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:15 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Greg Phillips View Post
We just finished our 2016 Time Trial season at Buttonwillow this past weekend and were running #13 CW.
You can look on out website for times of the different drivers, Not only the timed laps but you can also click on the Lap Details and see all of the different laps for the weekend.
My best lap of the weekend was on a set of used Nitto NT01 in my 1982 911SC at 2:02.96. My mechanic/co-driver turned a 1:58.90.

Greg
that's more like it!! 1982 911SC? what engine and transmission are in those? got some pix of this little beauty? what do you think whp / race weight is?
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:26 AM
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It's a fast car :-) and fast drivers. I think I barely eeked them out in my GT3 lol

Anything under 2 is quick at Buttonwillow 13CW.

http://zone8.pcasdr.org/index.php?p=...=ROY&c=CAR#CAR

Scroll up and click on class list and you can match up car number to car description and class.
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Old 11-15-2016, 03:15 AM
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:14 PM
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Default BW track 13

Originally Posted by 959fan View Post
that's more like it!! 1982 911SC? what engine and transmission are in those? got some pix of this little beauty? what do you think whp / race weight is?
It is a short stoke 3.2 still running CIS with 186 rwhp but with large torsion bars and Tarrett sway bars. Stock 915 transmission but with full welded cage and weight was 2440 before the cage went from bolt-in to welded.


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Old 11-15-2016, 04:27 PM
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Thanks guys for the help. Track configuration is key here, but also the fact that I'm a total noob at Button.

My setup is fairly ideal as is......Though I was messing with pressures and the bilsteins a bit. I wasn't totally comfortable in the cockpit (something's couldn't be adjust till after I got back), but it was a good start. One area that I could do with more confidence is Riverside. I was only carrying 82-83 max..... Not a lot. Everything prior to this part of track I'm fairly squared away with. But the momentum lost through there is crazy I'm thinking.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:39 PM
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Another data point: I was also the Buttonwillow this past weekend for the finale TT, driving the CW #13 config.

2014 Cayman R PDK, stock save for tires/wheels/brake pads. The car is 2900-ish without driver and (I think) 1/4 tank of fuel; I weigh about 150lbs. Tires were very well used Potenza RE071Rs. Best time was 2:04.22.

Not sure what power the R's put down to the wheels -- 280ish?

Fellow driver in another Cayman R 6MT, same tires but fresh set, turned a 2:03.50's.

Cheers,
DJM
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:41 PM
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Here you go for reference / tips


That is about as fast as a SPB can go around which is 2700, 195whp, 255 width Toyo RRs
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:52 AM
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Impressive drive, Audipwr.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:43 AM
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sohc vtec honda... street tires, no aero. cracked 2:00. street tires are amazing now days.

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Old 12-05-2016, 12:47 AM
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same car also recently ran 1:34's at big willows. pretty fast if you ask anybody...

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Old 12-05-2016, 12:28 PM
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Thanks for these videos...I will be watching them, closely, looking for tips and tricks. As stated above, Riverside can be tricky. It takes a "bucket of ball" to keep one's foot to the floor; I confess I fall short here...and this is the fastest part of the track, where seconds can be gained or lost. I have some new aero on the car...let's see if that helps.....with the 993 RS tail, Riverside was a bit scary.

I can do a 1:34 at Big Willow in my street/track 993 on Nittos, so Buttonwillow later this month...on CW 13 with the Bypass and Sweeper, let's see how close I can get to 2:00 minutes. I'll have my AiM system fired up so the evidence will be in.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:15 AM
  #29
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Default Don't bother to read if unfamiliar with Buttonwillow (Long)

Just back from a Speed Ventures weekend at Buttonwillow, CW 13 with the "Buttonhook" and the "Sweeper". I ran in the the second fastest group, Green Group, Open Passing., "Race Like Conditions". And by God they were. This was much more intense than the typical HPDE. Lot's of testosterone flowing in that group. That "piece of cake" 2:00 minute time eluded me by 5 seconds.

My best time, was on the last session of the weekend, a 2:05.44. After the first session on Saturday when I turned my sucky 2:13.XX, I was pretty much consistent with 2:05.XX to 2:08.XX in the third session. The weather was clear and cool, little to no wind, ideal for HP. No real excuses for less than optimal performance other than "average" driving.

I was driving:
1. 1997 993 with stock motor, 260 HP to rear wheels
2. Short 3rd - 6th
3. 245 & 275 Nitto NT-10, on 8" front and 10" rear wheels, maybe 10 heat cycles to start the first session, 18 at the conclusion of the last session.
4. Trick suspension, RS sway bars in the middle setting
5.Post session tire temps were 34 to 36 Lbs.,
5. Added weight is not helping my case: The car is getting heavier as I have added some stock interior parts back, such as a stock passenger seat, stock door panels with HiFi speakers, and package shelf with HiFi speakers, lower dash with passenger air bag. I need to weigh the car. The added weight doesn't help. Some say ever additional 100 Lbs added eats up about 7 HP...don't know if that's true. I have probably added back close to 150 Lbs. It is costing me a little.

Got my *** kicked by lots of Japanese cars, a really quick SPEC Boxster or two, and my buddy in track dedicated 1998 Carrera S with a brand new set of Hoosiers. He got a 2:00.XX The sub 2 minute times were there, but not omnipresent. I did manage top pull off some nice passes, pat on my back, please!

I will soon be looking at my AiM data logger data at the metrics, looking to quantify improvement, or degradation in the turns listed below, over the course of the weekend.

In addition to analyzing the AiM data of this past weekend (I should have done it at the rack, too lazy), here is how I think I can knock off a few seconds:
1. More aggressive alignment, now too timid, -1.6 front, -1.4 rear, sort of a 993RS alignment, essentially a street alignment. I am going to look to get as close to -3 front, and down 1/2 of a - degree rear, perhaps -2 1/2 My car is not going back to the any serious street driving for a while. This will happen in January, before the POC Willow Springs event.
2. Getting a set Hoosier R7 tires, or use a set of slight used Yohohama slicks sitting in my garage, assuming the 280 rears will fit in the wheel wells...they should with the -2.5 degrees of camber.
Improved driving such as:
A. On the gas sooner coming out of 1,
B. Don't touch the brakes on first left in Cotton Corner maze,
C. More speed on the corner just past the Cotton Corners exit,
D, Stay out a little wider on the exit of Bus Stop, minimal berm contact,
E. Keep my foot to the floor all the way through Riverside. I have done
Riverside on Hoosiers in the past, CCW, and it was no problem, foot to the floor, but I just don't trust the Nittos enough to push them to their limit at that speed, in what could be a very gnarly part of the stack, were one to go off.
F. Get on the gas as soon as possible before the apex going over Lost Hills
G. Stay wide in the "By Pass" resulting in more speed through the ESSES and down to Sunset.

My claim to glory is that I seem to be able to carry a lot of speed through Sunset, and as a result, have been able to catch faster cars going down the front straight.

There are approximately 11 sections on the 13 CW configuration. I do well on 5...so I have my work cut out for me. Quite frankly, I prefer Buttonwillow CCW...Riverside CCW does not seem so intimidating. And I could do without the "Sweeper"...there are minimal visual reference points, so I find it challenging to drive the ideal line. But at least I know that I don't know, conscious incompetence.

In spite of not delivering a personal stellar driving performance, I learned a lot, and spent some great times with good friends. I know what I have to do to improve. End of story!
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:09 PM
  #30
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Default 2:00 is easy? Have to disagree...

At least it wasn't this past weekend for me. My best on Nittos was a 2:05.309 with a very conservative alignment, about -1.5 degrees camber....my buddy who runs under the pseudonym HKATE in a somewhat similar 993 with gears and big aero, race suspension and alignment, running fresh Hoosiers, best time for him, 2:00.XX. Am I making excuses here? Not really...I believe it is the facts: Hoosiers are quicker here, as well as any other track I have run. I just am reluctant to spend the money on them, at $1,500 a set, and with 10 good heat cycles in them. Hoosiers offer up their best performance with about -3.0 degrees of camber...not a street friendly alignment. My car is street legal, with nearly a full interior, with a race seat, stock passenger seat..I do have thin carpets and no back seats.

Anders Hainer, the current Porsche Owners Club (POC) Spec Boxster champ, turned a 2:00.700. Anders is a semi-Pro driver, with a very well prepared car by Dan Aspesi at Speed Ventures, and has managed to crush his competition in the POC this past year in their Spec Boxster series.

So based on HKATE's times, as well as Anders' times, in my opinion, 2:00.00 and better at Buttonwillow Config #13 CW, is not in any way easy, but it clearly can be done.

IMHO, smaller, lighter cars have an advantage in this configuration, lots of tight turns and only one high speed area, Riverside into Lost Hills. I think it would be easier to go sub-2 minutes in a lower HP, lighter weight car, with sticky tires, in contrast to a 3,000 Lb. + 993.

I'll take another run at Buttonwillow #13 CW one of these days, and this time I will have a track alignment with Hoosiers, and sans stock passenger seat. If you have gotten this far, thanks for reading the post.
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