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DE Instructor Opinion - high speed braking taught

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Old 09-22-2016 | 09:31 PM
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Default DE Instructor Opinion - high speed braking taught

Looking for instructor opinions.

I will be attending my second DE in October.

My first DE Zone 1 WGI, was great.

Instructor was exactly what a first timer needed.

My question is:

I would like to at least discuss, if not actually trying, the possibility of learning how to brake at high speeds, if a bad situation is happening in front of me.

Is it appropriate to seek this type of instruction or is it a subject that an instructor would be uncomfortable doing.

Doing something like this at high speed on a track, I don't think can be simulated on the street.

Comments and opinions pro or con welcome.
Old 09-22-2016 | 09:48 PM
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From your description it sounds to me what you are referring to is Threshold Braking. This is a skill learned on track and your instructor will be most likely happy to do this.

Also, is this something you could practice on your own in very large empty parking lots, provided the lot is big enough for you to brake in a straight line.
Old 09-22-2016 | 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr911
From your description it sounds to me what you are referring to is Threshold Braking. This is a skill learned on track and your instructor will be most likely happy to do this.

Also, is this something you could practice on your own in very large empty parking lots, provided the lot is big enough for you to brake in a straight line.
Yes, exactly "Threshold Braking".

I was discussing it with the gentleman who did my tech inspection today, he has instructed for PCA in the past.

And that is the term he used when I was asking him about it.
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:09 PM
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I'm not an instructor, but it sounds like you want to learn about threshold braking. I would tell your instructor that you want to work on braking technique - I imagine most instructors would be happy to help you develop braking (within the performance envelope of your car/tires).
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:13 PM
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The other drill/technique to learn is 'both feet in'.

You need to stop quick, or you goof up. Clutch and brake to the floor. Both feet in!

Saved my ***, and my nose at the last race I was in when I spun at T11 at COTA.

It quickly gets the car under control and because the transmission is in nuetrsl, keeps you from flying back across the track.

Safety first,

mike
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr911
From your description it sounds to me what you are referring to is Threshold Braking. This is a skill learned on track and your instructor will be most likely happy to do this.

Also, is this something you could practice on your own in very large empty parking lots, provided the lot is big enough for you to brake in a straight line.
Very important skill execution!
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Old 09-22-2016 | 10:30 PM
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Our region used to do an exercise where you'd speed up to 60 and hit brakes as hard as you can - basically engage ABS - just to get a sense of what brakes can do. They had some cones setup so that you could gauge braking distance.
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:35 PM
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Great exercise!
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by txhokie4life
The other drill/technique to learn is 'both feet in'.

You need to stop quick, or you goof up. Clutch and brake to the floor. Both feet in!

Saved my ***, and my nose at the last race I was in when I spun at T11 at COTA.

It quickly gets the car under control and because the transmission is in nuetrsl, keeps you from flying back across the track.

Safety first,

mike
At my first DE, my instructor went over that process verbally in the garage area and we executed before even exiting pit row, he referred to it as "All in", just a little different wording.

However, this was not going very fast.

Finding a safe place for practicing having ABS kick in at 70 MPH is difficult enough in my area.

My concern is at a little higher speed. Also in a situation where a corner might be involved.

Learning the skills of driving well in traffic at high speeds would be more comfortable and safer if the stopping/avoidance limitations of myself and the car were a known line, not to cross!!
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:46 PM
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You might also consider taking a defensive driving class. Attended one as the parent when one son was learning to drive. Held on a former air station runway. Lots of braking and evasion exercises. A blast and we both learned a lot. Wouldn't mind doing it again.
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:50 PM
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Threshold braking is just what it sounds like, for those with ABS it is the brake pedal pressure point just prior to the ABS kicking in. For non ABS cars it is the point just before lock up. The 60 mph to zero is a good test especially when you pick a point where you want to stop and how close you get to that point

My first instructors braking analogy was when you initially start driving you brake like you have a flat of unsecured eggs in the back seat and you don't want to break them, on the track you want to scramble them on the windshield.
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:54 PM
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First things first; get some fresh fluid in the system so you don't burry your car in tire wall the second time you stop hard - saw this happen to a guy earlier this year.
The thing to remember is that, the more weight you have on the front tires the better you can stop. To accomplish this you have to introduce braking smoothly and build up pressure as the wight transfers.
If the car starts to move around you'll want to ease off and regain control.
Braking is hard to master and difficult to teach. I spend most of the time getting students to brake less and come off smoothly.
Good luck!
Old 09-22-2016 | 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NYoutftr

My concern is at a little higher speed.

Also in a situation where a corner might be involved.
Separate the exercises. Achieve competence, comfort and confidence stopping (or slowing) as fast as you can in a straight line.

Then, practice "The Procedure," taught by old timey Skip Barber Racing School instructors for decades, to correctly and safely find the brake point for any corner requiring this level of braking.
Old 09-22-2016 | 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rlm328
Threshold braking is just what it sounds like, for those with ABS it is the brake pedal pressure point just prior to the ABS kicking in. For non ABS cars it is the point just before lock up. The 60 mph to zero is a good test especially when you pick a point where you want to stop and how close you get to that point

My first instructors braking analogy was when you initially start driving you brake like you have a flat of unsecured eggs in the back seat and you don't want to break them, on the track you want to scramble them on the windshield.
That's a good one!
Old 09-22-2016 | 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Thundermoose
Our region used to do an exercise where you'd speed up to 60 and hit brakes as hard as you can - basically engage ABS - just to get a sense of what brakes can do. They had some cones setup so that you could gauge braking distance.
The cone idea puts an interesting perspective.
I would guess folks were surprised on actually seeing the visual the cones added.


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