Got to try out a Spec Racer Ford
09-07-2016, 05:56 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Interesting coochas, I appreciate the feedback. I'll have to give it more thought when I'm fully signed off and ready to buy another toy.
Also I like your idea of a light bar on the roll bar to help with visibility. That sounds safer in some settings and very easy to implement.
Also I like your idea of a light bar on the roll bar to help with visibility. That sounds safer in some settings and very easy to implement.
09-07-2016, 05:57 PM
#17
At WGI Trackmasters, Chin, Kojote and Group 52 do allow these cars--I've run with the first 3 groups this year and they all had at least one on track.
09-07-2016, 06:25 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Actually the SR3 weighs about the same as a Formula Mazda. For comparison, an SR3 should blow away an SRF. SR3 can run 1:55 easily at WGI or VIR.
There are a number of groups out East that allow open wheel with closed cockpit and they will tell you that there are no increases in car-to-car. If you ask David Murry or Mark Taylor they will confirm this.
You do need to be more alert in a low profile open cockpit car with respect to traffic. I run 1:58s at WGI and VIR which is up there with most cup car DE participants. Never had a problem. In fact, the only problem I ever had was with a Radical (a comparable size car).
Honestly, ANYONE should be able to see a low car from periodic rear mirror checks. Cars do not suddenly materialize in back. And properly adjusted side mirrors can see lower profile stuff most of the time.
Yes, I feel strongly about this and this topic has been beaten to death.
The segregation of open and closed cars goes back to the 1960s after a bad SCCA incident and remained unchallenged for many years. Someone like Peter Krause would likely know what this incident was.
Now, all this said, I put a string of white lights over my roll hoop to help people see me as I approach in my FM. The roll hoop is the same height as a Miata or Elise.
There are a number of groups out East that allow open wheel with closed cockpit and they will tell you that there are no increases in car-to-car. If you ask David Murry or Mark Taylor they will confirm this.
You do need to be more alert in a low profile open cockpit car with respect to traffic. I run 1:58s at WGI and VIR which is up there with most cup car DE participants. Never had a problem. In fact, the only problem I ever had was with a Radical (a comparable size car).
Honestly, ANYONE should be able to see a low car from periodic rear mirror checks. Cars do not suddenly materialize in back. And properly adjusted side mirrors can see lower profile stuff most of the time.
Yes, I feel strongly about this and this topic has been beaten to death.
The segregation of open and closed cars goes back to the 1960s after a bad SCCA incident and remained unchallenged for many years. Someone like Peter Krause would likely know what this incident was.
Now, all this said, I put a string of white lights over my roll hoop to help people see me as I approach in my FM. The roll hoop is the same height as a Miata or Elise.
09-07-2016, 06:36 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Believe me, the last thing in the world I would want to do is hit a 3500 pound car with my 1350 pound FM. I just avoid it!
Cars like SRF and FM have great running costs and offer a lot of bang for the buck. I'll assume the SRF is inherently safer since the wheels are not 'open.' If you are a racer, I think SRF field sizes are pretty big in most parts of the country. The FM, is very regional.
09-07-2016, 06:48 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
I can't seem to find the video, but I recall seeing contact between a 944 and SRF where the 944 went over the top of the SRF. It look appalling, but the SRF driver was fine and even the car was fixable.
One advantage is you are sitting in the middle of the car and there is 18" or so between you and either side. There has got to be some structure there, because one gets into the car by stepping on the left side bodywork. I have a long torso, I was very much below the roll cage.
On of the other things I didn't mention is getting into the thing literally felt like I was dressing into a suit. You literally wear the thing rather than ride in it.
-Mike
One advantage is you are sitting in the middle of the car and there is 18" or so between you and either side. There has got to be some structure there, because one gets into the car by stepping on the left side bodywork. I have a long torso, I was very much below the roll cage.
On of the other things I didn't mention is getting into the thing literally felt like I was dressing into a suit. You literally wear the thing rather than ride in it.
-Mike
09-07-2016, 08:45 PM
#21
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Actually the SR3 weighs about the same as a Formula Mazda. For comparison, an SR3 should blow away an SRF. SR3 can run 1:55 easily at WGI or VIR.
There are a number of groups out East that allow open wheel with closed cockpit and they will tell you that there are no increases in car-to-car. If you ask David Murry or Mark Taylor they will confirm this.
You do need to be more alert in a low profile open cockpit car with respect to traffic. I run 1:58s at WGI and VIR which is up there with most cup car DE participants. Never had a problem. In fact, the only problem I ever had was with a Radical (a comparable size car).
Honestly, ANYONE should be able to see a low car from periodic rear mirror checks. Cars do not suddenly materialize in back. And properly adjusted side mirrors can see lower profile stuff most of the time.
Yes, I feel strongly about this and this topic has been beaten to death.
The segregation of open and closed cars goes back to the 1960s after a bad SCCA incident and remained unchallenged for many years. Someone like Peter Krause would likely know what this incident was.
Now, all this said, I put a string of white lights over my roll hoop to help people see me as I approach in my FM. The roll hoop is the same height as a Miata or Elise.
There are a number of groups out East that allow open wheel with closed cockpit and they will tell you that there are no increases in car-to-car. If you ask David Murry or Mark Taylor they will confirm this.
You do need to be more alert in a low profile open cockpit car with respect to traffic. I run 1:58s at WGI and VIR which is up there with most cup car DE participants. Never had a problem. In fact, the only problem I ever had was with a Radical (a comparable size car).
Honestly, ANYONE should be able to see a low car from periodic rear mirror checks. Cars do not suddenly materialize in back. And properly adjusted side mirrors can see lower profile stuff most of the time.
Yes, I feel strongly about this and this topic has been beaten to death.
The segregation of open and closed cars goes back to the 1960s after a bad SCCA incident and remained unchallenged for many years. Someone like Peter Krause would likely know what this incident was.
Now, all this said, I put a string of white lights over my roll hoop to help people see me as I approach in my FM. The roll hoop is the same height as a Miata or Elise.
Yes a person 'SHOULD' see a car like an FM or an SRF but that is not the case always for a number of reasons.
1. The small car is not first in line when passing a car.
2. The SRF and formula cars eat up cars under breaking and in the turns. I've gained hundreds of feet on cars through small combos of turns and can easily see how a driver would not see me easily.
3. The roll hoop on an FM as tall as an elise or miata? Are you sure about that. They are huge but thats a whole new level of height. I feel small in the SRF when I am around miatas. Moreso for the bigger cars.
I'll assume the SRFs are somewhere between 1000-1300 pounds so if someone is going to get punted,....
Believe me, the last thing in the world I would want to do is hit a 3500 pound car with my 1350 pound FM. I just avoid it!
Cars like SRF and FM have great running costs and offer a lot of bang for the buck. I'll assume the SRF is inherently safer since the wheels are not 'open.' If you are a racer, I think SRF field sizes are pretty big in most parts of the country. The FM, is very regional.
Believe me, the last thing in the world I would want to do is hit a 3500 pound car with my 1350 pound FM. I just avoid it!
Cars like SRF and FM have great running costs and offer a lot of bang for the buck. I'll assume the SRF is inherently safer since the wheels are not 'open.' If you are a racer, I think SRF field sizes are pretty big in most parts of the country. The FM, is very regional.
Just because the wheels are covered doesn't make them as different from an open wheel car as you think. The 'covering' is thin fiberglass and it's not uncommon for tires to touch. Not like formula world but they will climb each other if they get into each other hard enough.
09-07-2016, 11:12 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I am unfortunately nowhere near my car so I can't measure the height. It's at least as tall as an SR3 which is 43". A 2005 Elise is 44". A similar Miata is 48" before it's lowered etc.
I agree with you that regardless of the heights, these cars are smaller and harder to see. I would say that 'more' of the responsibility for passing safely goes to the open cockpit car. At the same time, I don't understand when people say they can never see us. There are plenty of straight portions of the track where if you check your mirrors you will glimpse something coming up on you. Have I been surprised by an F1 or Indy car coming up on me? Sure! But I somehow see them and that's without a rear view mirror.
I agree with you that regardless of the heights, these cars are smaller and harder to see. I would say that 'more' of the responsibility for passing safely goes to the open cockpit car. At the same time, I don't understand when people say they can never see us. There are plenty of straight portions of the track where if you check your mirrors you will glimpse something coming up on you. Have I been surprised by an F1 or Indy car coming up on me? Sure! But I somehow see them and that's without a rear view mirror.
09-07-2016, 11:19 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
This was my main concern about driving one in a mixed setting with door slammers - cars coming over the top of the SRF. The hoop behind the driver will help in a roll over situation, but what happens if/when another car climbs over the top of an SRF?
09-07-2016, 11:37 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
TXE36, do you live anywhere near MSR Cresson? Open wheel/light weight run groups alternate with motorcycle and sport cars. Its awesome and very safe. There are several SRFs there. Texas Autosports is located on site and provides exemplary support for FMs and Pro Mazda if you have any interest in those cars. FMs actually only weigh about 1150 pounds and have 185hp. SRFs are fast, but FMs will easily pass and lap them.
Light weight cars with slicks do not go very far when they spin. That is a good and bad thing. I usually end up between apex and track out. A sport car could too easily run over me like a monster truck. That's my biggest concern.
Light weight cars with slicks do not go very far when they spin. That is a good and bad thing. I usually end up between apex and track out. A sport car could too easily run over me like a monster truck. That's my biggest concern.
09-08-2016, 12:04 AM
#25
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09-08-2016, 10:48 AM
#26
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wait til you get black flagged for ignoring the yellow you didn't see because you were screened from it by the seemingly massive Mustang you were passing BTDT
09-08-2016, 06:15 PM
#27
Drifting
Thread Starter
MSR Cresson is a bit far, but doable. May end up lightweight open cockpit someday. Still haven't maxed out the M3, but it was very interesting to try something so different. I've seen Formula Mazda's as well and they look fun.
I'll be back in the M3 a week from this weekend with fresh rotors. I've got a feeling the M3 is going to feel portly, and it's pretty light for an E36 M3.
-Mike
I'll be back in the M3 a week from this weekend with fresh rotors. I've got a feeling the M3 is going to feel portly, and it's pretty light for an E36 M3.
-Mike
09-11-2016, 12:10 PM
#30
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All interesting comments- to the OP, nice that you had a taste of the SRF Gen 2- the Gen 3 is a huge improvement in driving feel, responsiveness and IMHO, enjoyment.
Now, as to using an SRF of any kind in a mixed open track DE environment, NO. The car is a racecar, and is safe when among other racecars like it- formula cars and other SRF or open sports cars. With fiberglass body work and a relatively lightweight gauge tubular frame, it will not stand up to 4000 lb ground pounders it would run with in an open group.
Again, IMHO if the driving the car felt fun, then try getting your SCCA license and enjoy it in a real race environment! The SRF group across the country is the most competitive out there and you will learn more in a year than almost any DE program. Plus the camaraderie of the racers is excellent- it is really a great experience off track and on.
I get it that it takes a certain type of person to jump into a race environment, so TEHO- in that case stay with the DE and upgrade to a faster and safer racecar like a GT2 car, that can run safely with what you find at DEs.
Now, as to using an SRF of any kind in a mixed open track DE environment, NO. The car is a racecar, and is safe when among other racecars like it- formula cars and other SRF or open sports cars. With fiberglass body work and a relatively lightweight gauge tubular frame, it will not stand up to 4000 lb ground pounders it would run with in an open group.
Again, IMHO if the driving the car felt fun, then try getting your SCCA license and enjoy it in a real race environment! The SRF group across the country is the most competitive out there and you will learn more in a year than almost any DE program. Plus the camaraderie of the racers is excellent- it is really a great experience off track and on.
I get it that it takes a certain type of person to jump into a race environment, so TEHO- in that case stay with the DE and upgrade to a faster and safer racecar like a GT2 car, that can run safely with what you find at DEs.