Proposed 2017 PCA Club Racing Rule Change Comments
10-16-2016, 11:44 AM
#17
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Provisional Rule Changes were issued yesterday and are subject to comment by Nov 1:
Provisional 2017 Club Race rule changes
The following changes to the Club Race Rules are provisionally approved for 2017. Comments noting ambiguities in the announcement, typographical or other errors in specifications, and problems with changes which may have been overlooked may be addressed to the Rules Committee at crrules@pca.org until November 1.
Safety and General:
1) Firewalls - an in-car fire earlier this year with burn injury to the driver has prompted adding some more specificity to the existing safety rule 19 requiring firewalls around the driver compartment. Informed comment concerning possible practical problems with adhering to these specifications is invited.
Revised version: 19. All cars must be equipped with a metal firewall separating the driver compartment from any area exterior to the driver compartment below the level of the window bases (e.g., the engine compartment, the transmission compartment, the fuel tanks, exhausts, or just the ground under the car) capable of preventing the intrusion of fire, fluids, gasses, or debris into the driver compartment. All openings in the firewall, including those created by the allowed removal of stock components, must be closed with a metal cover mechanically fastened over the opening. Adhesives are not mechanical. The fuel sender opening in 924/944/968s must be covered with such a metal cover. Openings in firewalls for tubes and wires, if oversized, must be substantially closed with metal covers or commercial pass throughs, with any remaining small gaps and any holes no larger than 10 mm not closed with metal shall be plugged with high temperature sealants.
Except as specified above, the requirement of metal does not apply to composite or other plastic parts which are stock, or to replacement of doors with composite doors where allowed by the class rules.
2) Cameras or other instrumentation mounted on the exterior or protruding beyond the bodywork must be secured with a tether of suitable strength so that the device, if it has come loose, will have minimal ability to flail around, and in no case will be able to hit a tire or the ground or break the tether.
3) All cars must be equipped with a video recording device capable of recording what is in the driver's forward field of vision, and equipped with a card or other means of showing the video on a computer screen after a session. A second camera or lens pointing backward is highly recommended. It is the driver's responsibility to understand the operation of the device, to insure that the device is aimed properly, has adequate power and memory to record the session, and that it is turned on when the car leaves the grid.
4) The car's logbook must be located within the cockpit and accessible at impound to the driver or a scrutineer from outside the car.
5) 911s with door window frames may remove the wing window glass and the support upright to its rear.
6) Titanium lug nuts with engagement at least equal to the diameter of the wheel lug studs are allowed. (Note: This will apply to lug bolts as well, for those who have not converted to studs.)
GTA: A GTA3 class is created for the 991 Cups and other 991 based Porsche factory race cars.
GTC4 and 5: Aftermarket paddle shifters are allowed in these classes, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 100 pounds, and there must be at least a 100 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume.
(Note: during the regular comment period six current racers in these classes, and two others, opposed allowing paddle shifters, and only three drivers plus two others supported the change. However, on realizing that adoption was unlikely those supporting rounded up seventeen drivers who supported (or at least decided not to oppose) the change, along with eight drivers not currently racing in these classes. It should be noted that while proponents of this change believe the paddle shifter will not produce faster upshifts, many opponents believe the opposite, hence the requirement of at least 100 pounds of ballast in addition to an increase in the minimum weight for those who might choose paddle shifters. Because requiring these cars to weigh 100 pounds more is in most cases akin to throwing them in the briar patch because all or almost all are at least that much over the minimum to start with, there is the requirement that there be at least one 100 pounds of ballast added to cars using a paddle shifter. In fairness, those racing in these classes, or who had run these cars or are seriously considering doing so, and who have not stuck up a hand for or against paddle shifters should consider adding their views by commenting before November 1.)
GTB: The relevant parts of the GTB rules are changed to read:
1) Bodywork: Except as specified, an unmodified production chassis is required. Bodywork changes are limited to those found on an equivalent GT3 Cup as follows: The 996 911 may use 996 GT3 Cup parts, the 997.1 and 987.1 Cayman may use 997.1 GT3 Cup parts, the 987.2 Cayman and 997.2 911 may use 997.2 GT3 Cup parts. The 981 Cayman may only use stock or GT4 parts, including Club Sport parts (Note: the allowance of replica bolt-on parts of alternate materials in GTB is unchanged.)
D. Wings:
1) Wings are free with the following limitations. A) The maximum chord is limited to 12 inches measured at the widest point of the wing, not including endplates. B) The maximum total wingspan is limited to 64 inches including endplates. C) The Endplates must fit within a13.5 inch sided square on either side. D) The wing may extend no more than 1.5 inches beyond the rear bumper cover, measured at the center of the car. E) No part of the wing, excluding endplates but including any Gurney lip, may be higher than 4’8” above the ground with the car sitting on the ground in its racing configuration. F) Multi-element wings are not allowed.
(Note: These wing allowances and limitations apply to all GTB cars.)
4) Front bumper covers may have an opening cut into their upper surface to allow air from fluid coolers to vent upward, but this modification does not allow protrusions (e.g., Gurney lips). Ducting for such venting is free as long as there is no modification to the tub. This allowance does not apply to models which came with upward venting, which must be used in its stock exterior configuration.
5) 911s and 987.1 Caymans in GTB1 may use the 82mm GT3 throttle body and plenum, or aftermarket versions of the same, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 50 pounds, and there must be at least a 50 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume.
SPC
1) The class minimum weight is decreased to 2,925 lbs.
2) "De-snorkeling" by removing the baffle/restrictor plate in front of the air intake before the air filter is allowed.
3) Two piece rotors are allowed if dimensionally the same as stock.
4) Any Toyo street tire in any size which fits the allowed rims may be used as a rain tire in addition to the R888s, which may be sipped.
SP3
1) The 968 six speed transmission may only be used with a 968 motor at 968 weight.
SP996
1) The Motion Control 2WNR (2-way non-remote)is allowed as an alternative shock.
Stock:
1) Headlights may be removed but the opening must be covered.
2 ) Aftermarket 2-piece lower control arms are allowed on the 996/997/Boxster/Cayman as long as camber is not adjusted to exceed what can be achieved with the allowed GT3 part.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Published proposals not adopted:
None of the SPB proposals had sufficient support for adoption in this fiercely competitive spec class.
Race results did not support either of the proposed stock class weight reductions.
An additional issue on which comment is solicited:
The Cayman GT4 Club Sport cars have a 16 gallon fuel tank, which has proved inadequate for a one hour enduro (55 minutes for the leader plus the pace lap, and up to a lap's time more for slower drivers. and a cool down lap). It also severely reduces the pit stop window for hour and a half enduros. The same rate of fuel consumption affects the 981 GTB3 Caymans with the 3.8 liter motor. There is no practical way to increase the size of the fuel tank in these cars given how they are constructed. For the CS series with their separate run group their enduros have simply been shortened. Allowing refueling for these cars, or all cars, during one hour enduros is not an option. One approach is to require that GTB3 cars take a 10 minute pit stop during one hour enduros, and also during refueling enduros.
Provisional 2017 Club Race rule changes
The following changes to the Club Race Rules are provisionally approved for 2017. Comments noting ambiguities in the announcement, typographical or other errors in specifications, and problems with changes which may have been overlooked may be addressed to the Rules Committee at crrules@pca.org until November 1.
Safety and General:
1) Firewalls - an in-car fire earlier this year with burn injury to the driver has prompted adding some more specificity to the existing safety rule 19 requiring firewalls around the driver compartment. Informed comment concerning possible practical problems with adhering to these specifications is invited.
Revised version: 19. All cars must be equipped with a metal firewall separating the driver compartment from any area exterior to the driver compartment below the level of the window bases (e.g., the engine compartment, the transmission compartment, the fuel tanks, exhausts, or just the ground under the car) capable of preventing the intrusion of fire, fluids, gasses, or debris into the driver compartment. All openings in the firewall, including those created by the allowed removal of stock components, must be closed with a metal cover mechanically fastened over the opening. Adhesives are not mechanical. The fuel sender opening in 924/944/968s must be covered with such a metal cover. Openings in firewalls for tubes and wires, if oversized, must be substantially closed with metal covers or commercial pass throughs, with any remaining small gaps and any holes no larger than 10 mm not closed with metal shall be plugged with high temperature sealants.
Except as specified above, the requirement of metal does not apply to composite or other plastic parts which are stock, or to replacement of doors with composite doors where allowed by the class rules.
2) Cameras or other instrumentation mounted on the exterior or protruding beyond the bodywork must be secured with a tether of suitable strength so that the device, if it has come loose, will have minimal ability to flail around, and in no case will be able to hit a tire or the ground or break the tether.
3) All cars must be equipped with a video recording device capable of recording what is in the driver's forward field of vision, and equipped with a card or other means of showing the video on a computer screen after a session. A second camera or lens pointing backward is highly recommended. It is the driver's responsibility to understand the operation of the device, to insure that the device is aimed properly, has adequate power and memory to record the session, and that it is turned on when the car leaves the grid.
4) The car's logbook must be located within the cockpit and accessible at impound to the driver or a scrutineer from outside the car.
5) 911s with door window frames may remove the wing window glass and the support upright to its rear.
6) Titanium lug nuts with engagement at least equal to the diameter of the wheel lug studs are allowed. (Note: This will apply to lug bolts as well, for those who have not converted to studs.)
GTA: A GTA3 class is created for the 991 Cups and other 991 based Porsche factory race cars.
GTC4 and 5: Aftermarket paddle shifters are allowed in these classes, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 100 pounds, and there must be at least a 100 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume.
(Note: during the regular comment period six current racers in these classes, and two others, opposed allowing paddle shifters, and only three drivers plus two others supported the change. However, on realizing that adoption was unlikely those supporting rounded up seventeen drivers who supported (or at least decided not to oppose) the change, along with eight drivers not currently racing in these classes. It should be noted that while proponents of this change believe the paddle shifter will not produce faster upshifts, many opponents believe the opposite, hence the requirement of at least 100 pounds of ballast in addition to an increase in the minimum weight for those who might choose paddle shifters. Because requiring these cars to weigh 100 pounds more is in most cases akin to throwing them in the briar patch because all or almost all are at least that much over the minimum to start with, there is the requirement that there be at least one 100 pounds of ballast added to cars using a paddle shifter. In fairness, those racing in these classes, or who had run these cars or are seriously considering doing so, and who have not stuck up a hand for or against paddle shifters should consider adding their views by commenting before November 1.)
GTB: The relevant parts of the GTB rules are changed to read:
1) Bodywork: Except as specified, an unmodified production chassis is required. Bodywork changes are limited to those found on an equivalent GT3 Cup as follows: The 996 911 may use 996 GT3 Cup parts, the 997.1 and 987.1 Cayman may use 997.1 GT3 Cup parts, the 987.2 Cayman and 997.2 911 may use 997.2 GT3 Cup parts. The 981 Cayman may only use stock or GT4 parts, including Club Sport parts (Note: the allowance of replica bolt-on parts of alternate materials in GTB is unchanged.)
D. Wings:
1) Wings are free with the following limitations. A) The maximum chord is limited to 12 inches measured at the widest point of the wing, not including endplates. B) The maximum total wingspan is limited to 64 inches including endplates. C) The Endplates must fit within a13.5 inch sided square on either side. D) The wing may extend no more than 1.5 inches beyond the rear bumper cover, measured at the center of the car. E) No part of the wing, excluding endplates but including any Gurney lip, may be higher than 4’8” above the ground with the car sitting on the ground in its racing configuration. F) Multi-element wings are not allowed.
(Note: These wing allowances and limitations apply to all GTB cars.)
4) Front bumper covers may have an opening cut into their upper surface to allow air from fluid coolers to vent upward, but this modification does not allow protrusions (e.g., Gurney lips). Ducting for such venting is free as long as there is no modification to the tub. This allowance does not apply to models which came with upward venting, which must be used in its stock exterior configuration.
5) 911s and 987.1 Caymans in GTB1 may use the 82mm GT3 throttle body and plenum, or aftermarket versions of the same, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 50 pounds, and there must be at least a 50 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume.
SPC
1) The class minimum weight is decreased to 2,925 lbs.
2) "De-snorkeling" by removing the baffle/restrictor plate in front of the air intake before the air filter is allowed.
3) Two piece rotors are allowed if dimensionally the same as stock.
4) Any Toyo street tire in any size which fits the allowed rims may be used as a rain tire in addition to the R888s, which may be sipped.
SP3
1) The 968 six speed transmission may only be used with a 968 motor at 968 weight.
SP996
1) The Motion Control 2WNR (2-way non-remote)is allowed as an alternative shock.
Stock:
1) Headlights may be removed but the opening must be covered.
2 ) Aftermarket 2-piece lower control arms are allowed on the 996/997/Boxster/Cayman as long as camber is not adjusted to exceed what can be achieved with the allowed GT3 part.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Published proposals not adopted:
None of the SPB proposals had sufficient support for adoption in this fiercely competitive spec class.
Race results did not support either of the proposed stock class weight reductions.
An additional issue on which comment is solicited:
The Cayman GT4 Club Sport cars have a 16 gallon fuel tank, which has proved inadequate for a one hour enduro (55 minutes for the leader plus the pace lap, and up to a lap's time more for slower drivers. and a cool down lap). It also severely reduces the pit stop window for hour and a half enduros. The same rate of fuel consumption affects the 981 GTB3 Caymans with the 3.8 liter motor. There is no practical way to increase the size of the fuel tank in these cars given how they are constructed. For the CS series with their separate run group their enduros have simply been shortened. Allowing refueling for these cars, or all cars, during one hour enduros is not an option. One approach is to require that GTB3 cars take a 10 minute pit stop during one hour enduros, and also during refueling enduros.
10-16-2016, 12:28 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Gonna make a lot of 911 guys with Halo seats happy with that vent window removal!
Stock:
1) Headlights may be removed but the opening must be covered.
5) 911s with door window frames may remove the wing window glass and the support upright to its rear.
Stock:
1) Headlights may be removed but the opening must be covered.
5) 911s with door window frames may remove the wing window glass and the support upright to its rear.
10-16-2016, 01:36 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
As one of the last 911's running in GTB - a 2006 non-DFI 3.8, I can easily do a one hour Enduro on a tank. in fact, I can run to the end of the pit stop window without stress.
Why the hell should my 911/GBT3 have a one hour Enduro turned into a 50 minute sprint? This while the rest of the field presumably continues on. Why should my 911/GTB3 be forced to make a ten minute stop in a 90 minute Enduro (really just a fussy way to make a shorter Enduro) because the Cayman 3.8's (running lighter than me) can't run a hour on a tank?
What is the logic of making just GTB3's take this gas guzzler time penalty while the rest of the race goes on?? Is that their intention?
Have they forgotten that there are actually a few 911's left?.
<An additional issue on which comment is solicited:
The Cayman GT4 Club Sport cars have a 16 gallon fuel tank, which has proved inadequate for a one hour enduro (55 minutes for the leader plus the pace lap, and up to a lap's time more for slower drivers. and a cool down lap). It also severely reduces the pit stop window for hour and a half enduros. The same rate of fuel consumption affects the 981 GTB3 Caymans with the 3.8 liter motor. There is no practical way to increase the size of the fuel tank in these cars given how they are constructed. For the CS series with their separate run group their enduros have simply been shortened. Allowing refueling for these cars, or all cars, during one hour enduros is not an option. One approach is to require that GTB3 cars take a 10 minute pit stop during one hour enduros, and also during refueling enduros./>
Why the hell should my 911/GBT3 have a one hour Enduro turned into a 50 minute sprint? This while the rest of the field presumably continues on. Why should my 911/GTB3 be forced to make a ten minute stop in a 90 minute Enduro (really just a fussy way to make a shorter Enduro) because the Cayman 3.8's (running lighter than me) can't run a hour on a tank?
What is the logic of making just GTB3's take this gas guzzler time penalty while the rest of the race goes on?? Is that their intention?
Have they forgotten that there are actually a few 911's left?.
<An additional issue on which comment is solicited:
The Cayman GT4 Club Sport cars have a 16 gallon fuel tank, which has proved inadequate for a one hour enduro (55 minutes for the leader plus the pace lap, and up to a lap's time more for slower drivers. and a cool down lap). It also severely reduces the pit stop window for hour and a half enduros. The same rate of fuel consumption affects the 981 GTB3 Caymans with the 3.8 liter motor. There is no practical way to increase the size of the fuel tank in these cars given how they are constructed. For the CS series with their separate run group their enduros have simply been shortened. Allowing refueling for these cars, or all cars, during one hour enduros is not an option. One approach is to require that GTB3 cars take a 10 minute pit stop during one hour enduros, and also during refueling enduros./>
10-16-2016, 03:00 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Pretty happy with the SPC changes except the rain tire issue was not resolved. Seems like if you run 18" wheels you are still stuck with the R888's as the other options do not have a front tire that will work.
10-16-2016, 03:19 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
As one of the last 911's running in GTB - a 2006 non-DFI 3.8, I can easily do a one hour Enduro on a tank. in fact, I can run to the end of the pit stop window without stress.
Why the hell should my 911/GBT3 have a one hour Enduro turned into a 50 minute sprint? This while the rest of the field presumably continues on. Why should my 911/GTB3 be forced to make a ten minute stop in a 90 minute Enduro (really just a fussy way to make a shorter Enduro) because the Cayman 3.8's (running lighter than me) can't run a hour on a tank?
What is the logic of making just GTB3's take this gas guzzler time penalty while the rest of the race goes on?? Is that their intention?
Have they forgotten that there are actually a few 911's left?.
Why the hell should my 911/GBT3 have a one hour Enduro turned into a 50 minute sprint? This while the rest of the field presumably continues on. Why should my 911/GTB3 be forced to make a ten minute stop in a 90 minute Enduro (really just a fussy way to make a shorter Enduro) because the Cayman 3.8's (running lighter than me) can't run a hour on a tank?
What is the logic of making just GTB3's take this gas guzzler time penalty while the rest of the race goes on?? Is that their intention?
Have they forgotten that there are actually a few 911's left?.
10-16-2016, 03:39 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Toyo R1R's seem like a pretty good alternative in 225/40/18f 265/35/18r.
10-16-2016, 04:35 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
10-16-2016, 05:55 PM
#25
10-16-2016, 06:30 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I don't have experience first hand, but I was speaking with a NASA BMW racer/Cheif instructor who uses them and he claims they are better than r888 in rain. I have used 888's in the rain.
I'm not sure if using the 245's available could potentially mess with the speed sensors/abs at all since they have a larger diameter than those rears?(Don't quote me on that, just a thought). I believe stock sizing is 235/40 265/40 which has the larger diameter in the rear. If there was a 245/35 option for the front that could have been an alright choice. My 2cents FWIW..
10-16-2016, 10:29 PM
#28
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GTC4 and 5: Aftermarket paddle shifters are allowed in these classes, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 100 pounds, and there must be at least a 100 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume.
(Note: during the regular comment period six current racers in these classes, and two others, opposed allowing paddle shifters, and only three drivers plus two others supported the change. However, on realizing that adoption was unlikely those supporting rounded up seventeen drivers who supported (or at least decided not to oppose) the change, along with eight drivers not currently racing in these classes. It should be noted that while proponents of this change believe the paddle shifter will not produce faster upshifts, many opponents believe the opposite, hence the requirement of at least 100 pounds of ballast in addition to an increase in the minimum weight for those who might choose paddle shifters. Because requiring these cars to weigh 100 pounds more is in most cases akin to throwing them in the briar patch because all or almost all are at least that much over the minimum to start with, there is the requirement that there be at least one 100 pounds of ballast added to cars using a paddle shifter. In fairness, those racing in these classes, or who had run these cars or are seriously considering doing so, and who have not stuck up a hand for or against paddle shifters should consider adding their views by commenting before November 1.)
Wow.
FWIW, see no advantage on upshifts vs sequential. Where you can get into trouble is on downshifts if not properly adjusted or driver not adept and there paddles should provide a marginal advantage due to more consistent engagement.
(Note: during the regular comment period six current racers in these classes, and two others, opposed allowing paddle shifters, and only three drivers plus two others supported the change. However, on realizing that adoption was unlikely those supporting rounded up seventeen drivers who supported (or at least decided not to oppose) the change, along with eight drivers not currently racing in these classes. It should be noted that while proponents of this change believe the paddle shifter will not produce faster upshifts, many opponents believe the opposite, hence the requirement of at least 100 pounds of ballast in addition to an increase in the minimum weight for those who might choose paddle shifters. Because requiring these cars to weigh 100 pounds more is in most cases akin to throwing them in the briar patch because all or almost all are at least that much over the minimum to start with, there is the requirement that there be at least one 100 pounds of ballast added to cars using a paddle shifter. In fairness, those racing in these classes, or who had run these cars or are seriously considering doing so, and who have not stuck up a hand for or against paddle shifters should consider adding their views by commenting before November 1.)
Wow.
FWIW, see no advantage on upshifts vs sequential. Where you can get into trouble is on downshifts if not properly adjusted or driver not adept and there paddles should provide a marginal advantage due to more consistent engagement.
10-18-2016, 02:16 AM
#29
Paddles
I for one like the idea having experienced the class change from C5 to GTA2 . The solution is much cheaper than building a 4 liter and you potentially invest half the money of a gear box rebuild .
10-18-2016, 02:51 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Huh?
???
"5) 911s and 987.1 Caymans in GTB1 may use the 82mm GT3 throttle body and plenum, or aftermarket versions of the same, but with two conditions: the minimum weight is increased by 50 pounds, and there must be at least a 50 pound weight bolted to the passenger seat mounts. The logbook must describe the dimensions and material of this required weight so it may be verified by measuring its volume."
As currently written, a 50 lb. added ballast penalty would be required even if the car is already over the minimum weight. I can't imagine this is the intent. For GTB1 987.1 Caymans, this would otherwise have been a way to try to offset the difficulty getting the weight anywhere near minimum.