PPo

P-Car folk,

Has anybody here campaigned a 924/944 series car in ChumpCar? I have a few questions about suspension set-ups and penalty points and looking to get some feedback on options.

1) Can you run the M030 Sway Bars on the cars without penalty? I assume yes, but want to check to me sure.

2) Because the M030 front struts uses a smaller diameter spring and a threaded body shock, the rules can be interrupted that a coil-over front, and torsion rear was an available factory set-up for these series of cars. Is this true?

3) The way I understand the rules, is that as long as you run non-adjustable shocks, you can use coil over front shocks, and a rear torsion bar set-up, with the M030 sway bars and delrin bushings all around without any penalty points added. Is this true or am I assuming something wrong?

4) I have some aluminum suspension bushings replacing stock bushings. Is that a 10 point penalty for each or is it 0 points based on this line in the rule book: “OE-replacement suspension bushings in polyurethane, delrin or similar material: 0 pts / car”

I am probably guilty of being too liberal with the rulebook... Any help is greatly appreciated!

Also, based on the results of these questions, I will probably have a set of adjustable remote LEDAs available for sale soon!

-Patrick

Ernie J

Give us a call we help you with the rules. 905-844-6219

JustinL

We are building a 944 chumpcar legal racer too. Here is our build thread: http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

1) Only if the car has M030 in the option list. They make a pretty clear distinction between OE original equipment and Original Equipment Manufacturer. See 4.5.6.1 in the rules "and no upgraded OEM parts from a more desirable or better
performance sports/luxury/upgrade model just because they bolt on to your car."

2) Likewise, unless the original car was a Turbo S you likely have to pay the points. But really the point value for springs isn't too bad. New rules allow stiffer springs as long as the dimension of the springs (except length and thickness) for no points.

3) You must run non-adujustable shocks because the points for adjustable is not worth it.

4)Solid suspension bushings are not free. That list includes all non-metal bushings. Last years rule had a provision for non-OE bushings at 25 points per car.

We are trying to balance the specc944 rule book with the chumpcar rule book and it's close, but a few compromises have to be made. Also keeping it in budget is a priority.

ddombrowski

We also run a 944 in Chumpcar, although I am not exactly an expert in where we fall on the rules.

We have delrin front control arm bushings which, as I interpret the rules, are not free.

The people we bought the car from used to run a weltmeister sway bar in the front and paid something like 35 points for it, but we took it off and put a stock one on. Sorry, I can't tell you the size/or what donor car it came from because I wasn't the one that did it.

We were honest about everything we did with the car, but nobody at tech checked our springs, or our front shocks/springs, or our torsion bars. Then again, we didn't have any fancy **** poking through the tops of the strut towers either that looked like a sore thumb. The only people that are going to question you on specific porsche setups sticking to the rules are going to be other 944 drivers that may contest you after the race (if you win).

JustinL

Delrin bushings are free this year for OE replacement. https://www.chumpcar.com/downloads/2016ChumpCarBCCR.pdf

PPo

Thanks for clearing that up... I thought that was the case, but I wanted to be sure... The aluminum bushings will cost 10 points per component, that I understand.

PPo

Guys,

All very helpful information... I understand the rules a bit better. I do find the policing of the rules rather light, not complaining, just an observation.

We are entering the car to have fun and learn more about racing, and to ultimately become better drivers. No need for us to win, so no need for us to cheat... The car is currently set-up a bit over the rules, so we will need to take off some great parts and replace them with good parts!!

Let me know if you guys have any questions about 944s or need parts... Hoping we can all have a safe season and help each other have fun on the track.

-Patrick

SiberianDVM

My team will be running at Road Atlanta in 8 days. This will be our 6th CCWS race weekend (2 have been Double 7s, 3 have been 14 hours) in our 1989 Toyota Supra. We took the checkered flag in all but one Daytona was a DNF).

The CCWS rules are a complete cluster ****. Maybe you Canadian guys have it better since they split you off, but the rules, tech inspection, and after race tech check and impound have gotten worse and worse.

Our car is not fast enough to win anyway, so we don't sweat it and just try to have fun and be safe. Good luck to you guys.

PPo

To me it sounds like you and your team have the right attitude. Good luck to you and team in the race, let us know how you do...

I hope the flustercuck of the rules will help generate a future for the sport of grassroots endurance racing. To me, this is the best way to enjoy the sport. Splitting the prep time and responsibilities among 4+ drivers makes it possible... I don't have time to do everything on my own... I really hope this remains, improves, or evolves in many many years to come.

P

SiberianDVM

Good luck to you guys as well. Our 1st choice for a ChumpCar was a 944, but then we started reading about oiling issues. Please let me know how you solved that.

The 7M-GE motor in the Supra seems durable, after a rebuild with a Cometic head gasket, oil cooler, and Accusump, but the car is so heavy that it is not competitive.

Luckily, we have so many drivers (almost all PCA instructors) that we have decided to build a 2nd car. For that we chose a 1994 BMW 325i. By the time it is ready, the Supra will be worn out, blown up, or totalled. Then I will get to build another car. I have a spare 914 roller and a spare 3.2 motor but CCWS still has that 75,000 points listed for a 914-6, which is a prime example of CCWS stupidity.

So, I'll probably end up building a E30 325.

PPo

The oiling issues of the 944 are not as bad as backyard mechanics want you to believe. Too many 944/924 series cars that are racing prove that. Many shops have a baffle kit just in case. Ernie from Mantis, who posts here and knows these cars very very well, can certainly help you with a baffle kit if you desire. Keep your oil topped up, fix leaks, fix any burning oil, and you should not have an issue. The baffle is extra protection. Also, upgrade to the later oil-pan if you are really worried... Yes there are two types.

I laughed at the 914-6 points when I saw that... however, it's kind of appropriate!!

The E30 325 is a great car IMHO... Good luck with that. It will be cheaper to maintain than the 944/924. Faster? Perhaps... We will see!

PPo

Sirs... Just want to let you know that you CAN use a coilover front shock with a threaded height adjustable shock body, and torsion bar rear WITHOUT adding penalty points for all 1987+ 944 and 924S cars. I wanted to check to be sure, but after confirmed it this morning with the technical parts guide. That's the year the M030 front struts where an available option for all cars.

However, the thicker M030 sway bars, and the adjustable rear M030 sway bars can only be used on some year Turbos, Turbo S, and 968s. All of those cars are a poor choice for Chump.

I do know the 924S can run a 23mm front and the matching rear size...

Adding 10 points for each aluminum suspension component that you may desire, (rear camber A-arm bushing suggested) with quality front threaded shocks and a good size rear torsion bar, and delrin in other areas... you get a damn good handling ChumpCar for the points!! (440pts)

Let's not tell everybody in Chump

JustinL

IMHO the oiling is mostly solved by better baffling. In chumpcar spirit, we copied one of the Lindsey baffles that I bought to go in my 951S with a sharpie pen, piece of aluminium and a door hinge from Canadian tire. The plastic oil pan insert was broken so we are replacing that with the updated part with the half windage. We'll also take some points on putting in an accumulator and a big oil cooler. I've raced my 968 engine for years with this setup and it runs way more RPMs and pulls way more lateral G's so I'm confident that the 944 engine can handle it.


Where did you confirm that springs and collars are 0 points for 944s? That would free up some points for us as well.

PPo

The M030 suspension, which is a 100% legit factory option for the post 86 944 and the 924S, is a threaded body coil over suspension with collars. I have a 1999 Factory parts book that has the part numbers for all the cars. So the car came with FRONT coil overs if you ordered the M030 suspension package.

Only the 968 (and perhaps a few Turbo Ss) came with rear springs. So you will need to use the torsion bar rear, or take the points if you add a spring.

The interesting thing is that the Koni Yellow adjustable shocks where also a factory option. Does that mean we can run adjustable shocks without penalty?!? or just the Koni yellows?!? I don't know how that applies. Again, you can clearly see in the factory parts manual that adjustable shocks where an option for these cars. Most, if not all, post 86 cars.

PPo

Just my opinion... These cars have been run really hard for many years by many people without needing an accumulator or baffles. I like the idea of the baffles, and it does help. But experience demonstrates that if you have the late oil pan, the proper parts to go with the late pan, have no serious leaks, don't burn up the oil, use a good quality synthetic, and always check your levels, you will not have a problem.

The accumulator is not needed IMHO. In fact, back when I read 100s of threads on this subject, some believed that the accumulator and extra pieces promoted the oil foaming that is theoretically the real problem. Not G forces, capacity, or pressure. The best fix was to ensure you have a really good breather.

...and thus perhaps one reason why a nice kit like this exists:

http://www.mantissport.ca/Products/P...t/Default.aspx

Also, crankshaft bearings are a wear item that should be replaced every 2 seasons!! ;-)