A couple of friends and I want to build an ITS car to run in a couple of 12 hour races and also campaign the car in PCA club races.

We wanted something German and considered the 944 over a BMW 3 series. My question is what class does an ITS prepped 944 run in PCA.

Also assuming we buy a completely stock street 944 what are the major upgrades we can do other than saftey equipment? Brakes, engine, and suspension in ITS?

We all race in the SCCA and are aware that in most cases the 944 may not be competitive with the newer E36 ITS BMW's. We are simply looking for a fun and reliable car that won't break the bank with millions of upgrades.

What is the minimum weight for such car in ITS and PCA Club?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

Jon:

The ITS 944 runs in PCA class GT4, where it is not very competitive.

I also looked at doing the same thing and backed away. As you stated, the legal 944s are as competitive in SCCA as the BMWs and RX7s. The rules in SCCA vs. PCA are too different to have a car that would be competitive in either venue if you try to race both venues. With that said, I have friends racing ITS 944s and they are having fun, but their lap time are off the pace.

 

It's not clear where you're located, but if it's on one of the coasts, you might want to take a look at the NASA 944Cup series (or the West Coast variant) as an alternative to the PCA option for an ITS car.

On my side of the country, the Mid-Atlantic "Cup" (I hear it's due for a name change for next season) has been gaining in attendance and sponsorship, and boasts a consistently strong turnout. For more info check out their web site at: www.944cup.com and/or e-mail either of the principle organizers (Dave Derecola, Alex Radcliffe) direct through the site... both are very accessible and would I'm sure be happy to answer any questions you might have about where/how the ITS spec 944 fits in the series and how competitive it is.

 

Thanks guys!

Jim I have friends here in the DC area that race in ITS with newer E36 BMW's and they all run lap times at Summit Point that are about 2 second per lap quicker.

Dar51,

I have spoken to Alex a few times on the phone, almost rented his 944 for a MARRS race last year. I sent an email to 944cup.com asking for some info. I race SRF's but two friends of mine are just getting started out in racing and they want a 944 so I am going in with them and hoping to run the 12 hour race next year.

I used to run with NASA and have been watching the 944 Cup with great interest. Seems like an ITS car will do well and have plenty of cars to race with in this series.

Do you rin at Summit much. We've probably bumped into each other there if you race their frequently or do track events.

Regards,

Jon

 

Jon,

This weekend there is a PCA club race at Summit Point, if you're in the DC area come on up. The club race chair for the PCA Potomac region is David Derecola who just happens to run the 944 Cup series as well. A few of us run in both series.
The next Cup races are the first and second weekend in November. I'll be there the first weekend but I couldn't pass up full course at VIR with NNJR the second weekend.

 

I'm in that process right now.......

Brakes must be stock. Period. All 2.5 liter 8v 944s are on the same line of the ITCS so any brakes that came stock on a 8v 944 are legal. No cross drilling. IIRC cryo treating is OK (probably because it's virtually impossible to tell if it was done). Coatings are not. You may remove the heat shields and you can run cooling hoses (up to 3" dia). You may remove the hand brake and all associated hand brake parts.

Engine.... You can overbore 0.040" if you can find pistons to fit. Aftermarket pistons may be used, but they must be of the same material and configuration, i.e. same dish volume, same right heights, same weight. No coatings beyond the stock iron oxide coating. Oil pan is free and baffles and scrapers may be added. Or, you could just source a late oil pan and build some baffles. Balancing is legal, but no material may be removed beyond that necessary for balancing. Port matching is legal up to 1" in. Cams must be stock. Cam timing may be changed with an offset key at the crank. Injection system must remain stock except for the addition of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The ECU (DME) box must remain stock (including connectors) however what's inside the box is open. Headers are open. Intake before the AFM is open, however the air source must be the stock location or under the hood. Flywheel must be stock, but it may be balanced (but not lightened). Clutch disc and PP are open as long as the flywheel remains unmodified. Valves must be stock and valve seat cuts must remain within the stock spec.

Suspension.... Any damper with the following restrictions: only 2 adjustments, no remote reservoir, and coilovers must use sleeves, i.e. no threaded bodies at this time (there has been some discussion within the ITAC at that it might be time to change this). Any springs, however the number, type, and locations must remain as stock. IOW, no rear coilovers. Ironically, you can use a threaded body damper on the rear of the 944 because it's not used as a coilover. That's what I'm doing. Bushing material is free (including spherical bearings) provided no modifications are made to the other components (control arms, etc.). Swaybars are free, but no cockpit adjustables.

There's more of course, but it would take much more space.

I think the 944 is still a good car. There is hope the E36 (and possibly the 944S) will be reeled in with "Performance Compensation Adjustments" (very limited comp adjustments) if they are approved (looking good). That should make the 944 competitive again.

If you have any additional questions, ask away. When I joined here I couldn't find many 944 ITS racers, but I've since found a few. We need to stick together and perhaps help each other out since we are at a bit of a disadvantage.

George Roffe
Houston, TX USA
84 944 SCCA ITS race car under construction
92 Sentra SE-R SCCA ITS race car occasionally borrowed
Member: Improved Touring Advisory Committee

 

Jon,

I spend way too much time at Summit, and while not racing, will probably be there this Sunday... will look for you. (When I'm driving a 951, it's one that used to belong to both Dave D. and Alex, so it's got some miles/history.)

Don

 

Actually, what you can do is build a PCA Stock car and race it in IT - that direction is legal. You just won't be competitive in IT, as you won't be able to take advantage of all the rules. As correctly noted, if you build a full-on IT car, it would be GT or Prep. in PCA.

 

Great info folks! Al I emailed Dave and he provided some useful info. George thanks for all that info. Sounds like the suspension is where the money can be best spent. What type of setup are you going to run?

Is it unrealistic to think we can build a competitive car for less than 10K. We are looking at 83-85 models in the 3-4K range (street cars with around 100,000 miles on the motors). We figured about 2K in saftey stuff (seats, harnesses, roll cage, battery switches etc.) and maybe anther 1K for rotors, pads, stell brake lines and some minor engine stuff.

Looks like the suspension could get costly.

I can't make the PCA event at Summit since a friend is racing at VIR in Grand Am cup but I will definetally be at the NASA event to watch and talk to some of you.

Lastly, from what I have read there is no class for the 944 S in the Cup series and I would assume it runs in ITE in SCCA and some other higher class in PCA.

Don, what color is your 951 and do you run with any DE groups like Audi Club, Trackmasters, FATT etc..?

Vaughan, is there any advantage to running the 924 in ITS. I know it's the same engine as the 944 but I would assume your car weighs a bit less.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod

 

I'm going to run Koni DA 8611 inserts in a custom produced strut. Haven't quite worked out the camber/caster adjustment yet, but it will probably not be off-the-shelf (unless we offer it through NISsport). In the rear I plan on a Koni DA 82XX aluminum bodied shock. I have to get one and work out fitment though. I hope to run it inverted, but I won't know if I can until I get there. Both dampers are DA twin-tube hydraulic.

Yes. I expect mine to cost somewhat less. Not including a good IT engine. But even with that, I expect to come in probably only a bit over if at all.

If you look around, and look on eBay, you should be able to find them for $1-3k for an acceptable car. You might have to pay more for one with a really well kept engine, but I'm not so sure. There are a lot of early 944s with trashed interiors and neglected suspension.

For a really decent (not really good) IT suspension I think you're looking at about $3-4k depending upon how serious you want to get. That would duplicate my dampers, hollow T-bars, GC front coilovers, adjustable swaybars, and spherical bearings. If you want really good dampers, Koni 28XX are about $5k a set. But, I think for less than half that, the set-up I'm planning on will be pretty good. Bilsteins are available as well, but they don't come DA. I think they can be had, but they get pretty pricey.

Nope. The 944S is now legal in ITS at the same weight as the E36 325i.

 

It's black and I teach for BSR, PCA-Potomac, Mercedes, and occassionally NASA. Mostly at Summit, some at VIR.

 

A good 944-Spec car is less than 10k. Much less if you do the work yourself.

944-spec runs on the west coast using a rule set optimized for the 944 and to keep costs down and the cars equal a much as possible.

944-spec cars are lighter than ITS cars and similar in many rules but different in others. My guess is ITS are a bit quicker since more can be done to the engine and suspension vs a 944-spec.

Last 944-spec Event we had 16 cars in each race. Lots of fun.

 

Hi Jon,
Nice to see you here.
Hubert

 

I apologize, I meant to say the 944s are NOT as competitive as the 325s and the RX7s. The ITS Mazdas and BMWs are considerably faster at every venue I have been too.

 

Hubert,

How many boards do you belong to? How do you have time enough to study? Anyway, if the ITS thing works out I'll be spending more time here as well.

M758,

I think the closest class we have here is the NASA 944 Cup. ITS from what everyone here has indicated allows quite a bit of suspension modifications that look like they can add up the $$$'s.

I went to your site...looks like you all have a lot of fun running the 944's. I am hoping to have the car ready to run a few 944 Cup races and maybe a ITS race or two.

Anyway, thanks for all the help folks. As soon as we find a car (and make up our mind which car, BMW or P Car) I am sure I'll have more questions for you all.

Regards,

Jon