Difference in driving an older 911 and a SPB.....
12-14-2015, 02:41 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
In all seriousness, I would say being confident/consistent on your line and brake/throttle inputs pay dividends in these cars. the less 'wheeling' and 'pedaling' of the car the better. 911's are made to throttle steer, SPB's not so much (no diff). The car likes gas when turning, doesn't like lifting of the gas so work out how to use the brake and gas pedals in a single motion when using them. Same goes for the steering wheel.
And lastly, all a brake pedal does is stop or slow a car down. So don't use it.
And lastly, all a brake pedal does is stop or slow a car down. So don't use it.
12-14-2015, 05:49 PM
#19
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was going to say something like "much harder to drive an Spec Boxster because the high heels the driver is wearing get in the way". Boxster drivers tend to slow as the session goes on especially in the summer months because their panty hose under their nomex doesn't breathe well and leads to early fatigue, about the same time as the Toyos get greasy.
12-14-2015, 09:24 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Glen's is very good to watch as it shows that being smooth and consistent is quick. Not sure how that silver car, after Glen beat him out of the carousel, just blows right by him coming out of 11. Wish I could see throttle position but seems like he was flat from the kink before the bridge on out, but who knows..
12-15-2015, 03:33 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Glen's is very good to watch as it shows that being smooth and consistent is quick. Not sure how that silver car, after Glen beat him out of the carousel, just blows right by him coming out of 11. Wish I could see throttle position but seems like he was flat from the kink before the bridge on out, but who knows..
12-15-2015, 04:33 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Glen's is very good to watch as it shows that being smooth and consistent is quick. Not sure how that silver car, after Glen beat him out of the carousel, just blows right by him coming out of 11. Wish I could see throttle position but seems like he was flat from the kink before the bridge on out, but who knows..
Here's the cue for muller to tell me to change my exit trajectory out of the octopus (which may in fact be part the explanation after reviewing the video with a few folks). There's a lot more to SPB than Matt's somewhat disingenuous comments about less brake and more gas.
You will learn in SPB is that extremely minor adjustments (not binding the wheel and letting the car roll out of the corner, extremely smooth brake release on entry, subtle adjustments in the attitude of the car at exit) can have huge consequences when 5 guys are within 1/10th of a second of each other.
I've looked at yonker's data and video on many occasions... and have even had heart-to-heart's with Peter Dawe about what he must secretly be doing to his golden boy's car that he wasn't doing to mine. I showed him data of yonker and me exiting corners (e.g. #5 at sebring), both of us going exactly the same speed at exactly the same point mid apex and exit, but him going 3-4 mph faster by the start of the braking zone. I was convinced my car was down on power. However, the answer in SPB usually lies within. SPB is the great equalizer and forces you to be truly honest about your own skills. Turns out, we were able to uncover Yonker's slightly different line, rotating the car earlier in the corner, his car subsequently pointing ever so slightly more straight down track at exit, earlier release and less binding of the wheel, resulted in more momentum and less resistance... After the revelation, I followed him a few times, and was able to (almost) make up the difference.
Very subtle differences... huge consequences. I've definitely become a better driver because the platform forces you to turn the blame internally rather than externally. I'm no longer at the tip of the spear (just perhaps one tick back from the elite guys), but I'm learning and getting better. It's like a masters class when you get behind one of these dudes (Gladwell, Oxner, Yonker, and yes Matt Muller). But, they are human... they can make mistakes, and then I'm right there to steal a few podiums when opportunity knocks.
G
Last edited by ninjabones; 12-15-2015 at 08:57 PM.
12-15-2015, 04:43 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Glen's is very good to watch as it shows that being smooth and consistent is quick. Not sure how that silver car, after Glen beat him out of the carousel, just blows right by him coming out of 11. Wish I could see throttle position but seems like he was flat from the kink before the bridge on out, but who knows..
Last edited by jdistefa; 12-15-2015 at 05:08 PM.
12-15-2015, 05:26 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Here's the cue for muller to tell me to change my exit trajectory out of the octopus (which may in fact be part the explanation after reviewing the video with a few folks). There's a lot more to SPB than Matt's somewhat disingenuous comments about less brake and more gas.
G
Sorry you think I am disingenuous. But it's true. Mostly the brake for most, as most people don't have a problem with gas. It's simply the easiest way to say it.
And yes, I think your line in the exit of the octopus is wrong, but that just me. Your results may differ..........
See you at Sebring.
12-15-2015, 07:16 PM
#28
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Having made the very same transition you will notice less feedback. The car is softer, the power steering takes away some sensation and the ABS is just too easy to use. It's just not as raw as you are used to.
That was my experience anyway.
And corner entry speed corner entry speed corner entry speed. You don't have the TQ or hp to recover from a mistake. That is not to say that an E car is a pure hp car but you do have a bit more that you may have relied on.
That was my experience anyway.
And corner entry speed corner entry speed corner entry speed. You don't have the TQ or hp to recover from a mistake. That is not to say that an E car is a pure hp car but you do have a bit more that you may have relied on.
12-15-2015, 07:51 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I've definitely become a better driver because the platform forces you to turn the blame internally rather than externally.
^^ This should be why we race. Well Said!!
^^ This should be why we race. Well Said!!
Nice pick-up gary... trust me, I was thinking the same thing
Here's the cue for muller to tell me to change my exit trajectory out of the octopus (which may in fact be part the explanation after reviewing the video with a few folks). There's a lot more to SPB than Matt's somewhat disingenuous comments about less brake and more gas.
You will learn in SPB is that extremely minor adjustments (not binding the wheel and letting the car roll out of the corner, extremely smooth brake release on entry, subtle adjustments in the attitude of the car at exit) can have huge consequences when 5 guys are within 1/10th of a second of each other.
I've looked at yonker's data and video on many occasions... and have even had heart-to-heart's with peter dawe about what he must secretly be doing to his golden boy's car that he wasn't doing to mine. I showed him data of yonker and I exiting corners (e.g. #5 at sebring), both of us going exactly the same speed at exactly the same point mid apex and exit, but him going 3-4 mph faster by the start of the braking zone. I was convinced my car was down on power. However, the answer in SPB usually lies within. SPB is the great equalizer and forces you to be truly honest about your own skills. Turns out, we were able to uncover Yonker's slightly different line, rotating the car earlier in the corner, his car subsequently pointing ever so slightly straight down track at exit, earlier release and less binding of the wheel, resulted in better momentum and less resistance... After the revelation, I followed him a few times, and was able to (almost) make up the difference.
Very subtle differences... huge consequences. I've definitely become a better driver because the platform forces you to turn the blame internally rather than externally. I'm no longer at the tip of the spear (just perhaps one tick back from the elite guys), but I'm learning and getting better. It's like a masters class when you get behind one of these dudes (Gladwell, Oxner, Yonker, and yes Matt Muller). But, they are human... they can make mistakes, and then I' right there to steal a few podiums when the opportunity knocks.
G
Here's the cue for muller to tell me to change my exit trajectory out of the octopus (which may in fact be part the explanation after reviewing the video with a few folks). There's a lot more to SPB than Matt's somewhat disingenuous comments about less brake and more gas.
You will learn in SPB is that extremely minor adjustments (not binding the wheel and letting the car roll out of the corner, extremely smooth brake release on entry, subtle adjustments in the attitude of the car at exit) can have huge consequences when 5 guys are within 1/10th of a second of each other.
I've looked at yonker's data and video on many occasions... and have even had heart-to-heart's with peter dawe about what he must secretly be doing to his golden boy's car that he wasn't doing to mine. I showed him data of yonker and I exiting corners (e.g. #5 at sebring), both of us going exactly the same speed at exactly the same point mid apex and exit, but him going 3-4 mph faster by the start of the braking zone. I was convinced my car was down on power. However, the answer in SPB usually lies within. SPB is the great equalizer and forces you to be truly honest about your own skills. Turns out, we were able to uncover Yonker's slightly different line, rotating the car earlier in the corner, his car subsequently pointing ever so slightly straight down track at exit, earlier release and less binding of the wheel, resulted in better momentum and less resistance... After the revelation, I followed him a few times, and was able to (almost) make up the difference.
Very subtle differences... huge consequences. I've definitely become a better driver because the platform forces you to turn the blame internally rather than externally. I'm no longer at the tip of the spear (just perhaps one tick back from the elite guys), but I'm learning and getting better. It's like a masters class when you get behind one of these dudes (Gladwell, Oxner, Yonker, and yes Matt Muller). But, they are human... they can make mistakes, and then I' right there to steal a few podiums when the opportunity knocks.
G
12-15-2015, 08:13 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Greatly looking forward to learning from you guys (seriously).. Matt (either one), would love to see in-car vids at LR, WGI, TBolt, or Summit if you wouldn't mind sharing!