2nd time on track. How to develop feel?
#16
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I've instructed at these sorts of events. At the particular outfit, I was demanded to spend as little time as possible with each student--and I resisted as my *** was on the line. The owners kept a stopwatch to see how short they could make each lap experience.
NO NO NO. Exotic experiences are not any place to actually learn to drive at a track. Getting some benefit requires a couple hours of class, a consistent instructor, and a progressive learning experience in the same car each time.
You don't get in trouble because the cars are rear engine. You get in trouble by not properly understanding the learning experience, by not starting at a reasonable pace and developing feel, vision, and awareness in progressive steps. And besides, modern 911's stick like glue.
I have a ton of experience instructing at ferrari club HPDE's. They're unbelievable cars and that makes them awful for learning. You can't get anywhere near the car's limits, which is where the advanced learning happens.
Having said all of that strident stuff, I'll make an actual suggestion for the OP. Work on looking farther down the track at all times. That's a skill you can practice in any car, at the track or on the highway. But at the track, you'll be amazed how much more confident and smooth looking farther ahead can help.
Oh, btw, the "professional driver"? Not really.....That's usually us--PCA or BMWCCA instructors.
NO NO NO. Exotic experiences are not any place to actually learn to drive at a track. Getting some benefit requires a couple hours of class, a consistent instructor, and a progressive learning experience in the same car each time.
You don't get in trouble because the cars are rear engine. You get in trouble by not properly understanding the learning experience, by not starting at a reasonable pace and developing feel, vision, and awareness in progressive steps. And besides, modern 911's stick like glue.
I have a ton of experience instructing at ferrari club HPDE's. They're unbelievable cars and that makes them awful for learning. You can't get anywhere near the car's limits, which is where the advanced learning happens.
Having said all of that strident stuff, I'll make an actual suggestion for the OP. Work on looking farther down the track at all times. That's a skill you can practice in any car, at the track or on the highway. But at the track, you'll be amazed how much more confident and smooth looking farther ahead can help.
Oh, btw, the "professional driver"? Not really.....That's usually us--PCA or BMWCCA instructors.
Last edited by mhm993; 05-14-2015 at 12:50 AM.
#18
You've already been to one of these, so you know there's a certain subset of participants who just want to brag about how fast they went in a <brand name of car>. Mark's suggestion above is in my (non-expert) opinion the most attainable for you: focus on getting your eyes ahead and really tracing the line you want your weighted wheels to take through the corner. The most memorable way I've heard this said is to "look two things ahead" (for example, at the turn in point, your eyes should have already traced a good line past the apex of the corner to track out, or where it would be if you could see it on blind corners).
Remember this -- and it took me LITERALLY constant concentration to do it when I was new -- and you'll hit your marks and start to really connect the corners together smoothly. That is satisfying in any car.
As noted elsewhere, you're going to love HPDE. PCA has a great one, and so do a lot of others.
#20
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The more I think about your original question, the more I say - go have fun, its not likely to help you get ready for real track time in your Porsche and may even screw you up if you try to translate the exotic car experience to a DE-type of experience.
Go have fun in the exotic, but arrive at DE with a blank slate.
Go have fun in the exotic, but arrive at DE with a blank slate.
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Since I'm basically a blank slate at this point I'd like to learn proper technique and skills so I can use them when I bring my own car to the track. I've heard that because of the engines in the back Porsche 911s have a different feel and can get you in trouble.
Thanks for your advice everyone
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#24
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My two cents-
I went the opposite way. I did HPDE/autocross for years, then got into progressively bigger tracks (HHR, both MSR's, Barber, COTA, etc). Even now I ocassionaly hire a pro coach. It's always money well-spent. After several years of doing this, I finally did my first "Exotic" driving experience events. That allowed me to go fast, and safely, from the get go at those type of venues. Thus, I maximized my enjoyment factor.
Good luck. Tons of good advise here.
I went the opposite way. I did HPDE/autocross for years, then got into progressively bigger tracks (HHR, both MSR's, Barber, COTA, etc). Even now I ocassionaly hire a pro coach. It's always money well-spent. After several years of doing this, I finally did my first "Exotic" driving experience events. That allowed me to go fast, and safely, from the get go at those type of venues. Thus, I maximized my enjoyment factor.
Good luck. Tons of good advise here.
#25
Instructor
Agree with everything that's been posted; some great advice here.
On the topic, here's an interesting article by Jack Baruth from the other seat: being an instructor at one of these events.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ers-in-4-days/
On the topic, here's an interesting article by Jack Baruth from the other seat: being an instructor at one of these events.
The vast majority of my "students" had never driven anything remotely as powerful or tricky as a Ferrari 458 or Lamborghini Gallardo, and they sure as hell hadn't ever been on a racetrack. Through their eyes, over the course of nearly a week, I learned some things I'd long ago forgotten, or perhaps never knew.
To begin with, racetracks are really confusing. It's confusing to enter the track, and confusing to leave it. Once you've entered, it's in no way plain where to go, what side of the track to drive on, and how fast you're allowed to drive. About one-third of my students never exceeded 70 mph, even given 600 horsepower and an open course.
To begin with, racetracks are really confusing. It's confusing to enter the track, and confusing to leave it. Once you've entered, it's in no way plain where to go, what side of the track to drive on, and how fast you're allowed to drive. About one-third of my students never exceeded 70 mph, even given 600 horsepower and an open course.
#26
Agree with everything that's been posted; some great advice here.
On the topic, here's an interesting article by Jack Baruth from the other seat: being an instructor at one of these events.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ers-in-4-days/
On the topic, here's an interesting article by Jack Baruth from the other seat: being an instructor at one of these events.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ers-in-4-days/
My plan now is to take the 1st lap very slowly to get a feel for the car and the track and then go a little faster on the 2nd and much faster on the 3rd. I'll tell the instructor I'm trying to learn and have fun and will really focus on looking ahead.
As the article mentions, the racetrack is confusing and I have no idea when or how hard to brake or accelerate. I've tried to do some research and I know that you don't want to quickly upset the balance of the car. What I remember from last time too is I don't want to look down at the tach or speed since vision is so important.
#27
Race Car
I think it is foolish to try and go fast at one of these "Exotic" driving experience events with the amount of track experience you have. The event is certainly not the place to learn how to get faster. You will not have enough time to develop any type of feel for the car. Do you even know the track??
#28
I think it is foolish to try and go fast at one of these "Exotic" driving experience events with the amount of track experience you have. The event is certainly not the place to learn how to get faster. You will not have enough time to develop any type of feel for the car. Do you even know the track??
There's a map here:
http://www.homesteadmiamispeedway.co...y-Rentals.aspx
I believe it's the full road course. Last time I had trouble with turns 2-4
#29
Rennlist Member
Students who try to "drive fast" are slow and/or dangerous. Better to try to drive smoother each lap at a moderate speed. Since speed is the reward for doing everything right, work on smooth applications of hands and feet while looking ahead.
#30
So I had a lot of fun and did in fact learn a few things. I told them it was my 2nd time so they didn't give much advise other than not to turn suddenly if I mash the throttle or brake and to start pushing on both pedals lightly and then harder.
The course was abbreviated due to some kind of construction, so I ran the same smaller track over and over. It took me a few laps to figure out how much to brake and when and also just how much to turn the wheel to stay in tight on the corner. The advice about looking ahead was extremely helpful as I was tempted to look back to see where I was and fought that urge.
Another thing I learned was that the Ferrari F430 is a much better car than the Lamborghini Gallardo. The instructor told me I should definitely take my own car to the track and they have events with an instructor that will really give a lot more feedback than they could give there.
Thanks everyone for your help. It was a lot of fun and quite an experience I won't soon forget
The course was abbreviated due to some kind of construction, so I ran the same smaller track over and over. It took me a few laps to figure out how much to brake and when and also just how much to turn the wheel to stay in tight on the corner. The advice about looking ahead was extremely helpful as I was tempted to look back to see where I was and fought that urge.
Another thing I learned was that the Ferrari F430 is a much better car than the Lamborghini Gallardo. The instructor told me I should definitely take my own car to the track and they have events with an instructor that will really give a lot more feedback than they could give there.
Thanks everyone for your help. It was a lot of fun and quite an experience I won't soon forget