Best Simulator Set Up - Hardware and Software
 

At the risk of being told to use "search" (which I did), what do people think is the best set-up for a racing simulator to use to hone one's skills. With all the reporting on how video simulators/gaming helps develop skills (Nissan GT Academy, recent SCCA cover story, iracercoaching, etc), thought I would take a harder look at this. What do people recommend for hardware? How about software/simulation? I had a brief membership to iracing but was frustrated by an inability to pick the car I wanted and simply run laps. Maybe that has changed? It would be great to cut through all the noise and get some solid info and give it a real try. Thanks!

This is what I got:

Sim Seats

Thanks. Assume that is a recommendation? Also, I forgot to mention I need something that is pretty much plug and play once it is set up. I know that if there is a lot of messing around to get it to work properly I will lose interest.

logitech wheel is good but the fanatec and frex stuff is better. there's also 40k rigs so depends on how much you want to spend.

http://www.cxcsimulations.com/

Ive never had a problem with running solo laps on any track in iracing.

Correct - it works very well for me. Couple of hours set-up and plug and play.

I have:

triple monitor setup (a must IMO for racing, at least you can see what happens next to you)
Fanatec Clubsport wheel + pedals
a decent computer with graphics card that can drive those 3 monitors
a rig where the steering wheel isn't mounted on a post with a support in the middle, as this is really annoying when you want to heel and toe.

Hardest thing to choose was the rig to mount everything on. There are many different ones and all have pros and cons. I went for the GT Omega Pro one.

I find the challenge is not finding decent equipment and frames for this stuff, the problem is a unified, plug and play setup with the really good stuff (Fanatec V2 Wheel, for instance) that doesn't require some support.

Those issues are far fewer when you pony up for an integrated setup like Virtual GT or CXC.

It gets worse if you run multiple simulations to get the best combination of cars/tracks, etc.

That said, a majority of clients I work with remotely either set up their own or use the top SimSeats setup. We use iRacing because the US tracks are terrific and I can set up private online sessions lasting two or three hours to fully dissect a track. It is possible to just pound around (which is all I do on my own) in the "Test" mode with any car on any track you own.

Remote virtual coaching, specifically VERY detailed track study, is a very big part of my business and had been for many years.

Another thing, Joe. If you have not had experience in these, TEST before you do triple screen and especially any motion platform.

Depends on your physiology, but about 35% of the people I put on my static triple screen at VIR (and it is one of the best) experience some sort of motion sickness. Yes, I know the platform is static, but for some, not knowing to focus straight ahead and the inability for the brain to reconcile what they see and what they DON'T feel is a pretty common issue. This is well cited in the military and even in F1.

Motion is a whole 'nother ball of wax...

Are there any known fixes for this Motion sickness?

I wasn't really thinking about a motion platform when reading the question :D That's an entirely different budget.

I really wonder what support you talk about?

I just got a decent Windows 8 gaming pc, Fanatec hardware, keyboard, mouse, 3 screens and I got a subscription to iRacing. Everything just worked out of the box.

Most folks don't have any issues with a single screen or projector. It's the three screens without bezel correction or set up very well that are the issue. Latency or lag in the rendering aggravate the problem, so a better computer (video card) can help, too.

I understand. But there are more than a few I know in the Rennlist community that have or have the budget for motion platforms. The D-Box system on a VisionRacer platform is a good compromise between complexity, function and value, IMO.

I'm glad for you! If one only uses iRacing, that's the least maintenance intensive solution, but I know you had to use AMD's Eyefinity or nVidias similar solution to set up the triple screens, unless you bought it as a package.

For you (who writes your own code for your commercial offering) and I, geeks that we are, of course its not too bad. We can tweak and troubleshoot to our hearts delight, especially the setup on the Fanatec wheel, but for most looking for a truly plug and play, get-in-sit-down-and-drive solution, this technology is still a pain if you want it really right.

Believe me, I have been building my own gaming computers since the days of 3dfx cards (?!?!) and the advent of the Pentium chip, and while the rendering is incredible now, the integration of all the required components done right (and keeping that combination humming) is a challenge. That's why it's worthwhile to talk to people who supply commercial systems like CXC or someone who supplies packages for this specific purpose, assembled and tested beforehand and sent to customers that way.

i just ordered a thrustmaster and these pedals

http://ecci6000.com/images/6000_11_m.jpg

i run the obutto cockpit with three screens, its a simple setup and doesnt break the bank.

No need to tell me. :)

I used to write 3D rendering engines before 3dfx cards even existed, followed by a 7 year "career" in (console) game development.

And indeed I forgot about running the nVidia tool to enable triple screen as one huge monitor with bezel correction.

Eyefinity is the same way...

I recently put together a guide on building a complete simulator, and on a budget too. If you go for all of the "high-end" stuff, you'll probably have gear better than even what the F1 teams use. (I know, bold statement. :burnout:)

http://www.mockracer.com/2014/12/how...ivingroom.html

Good article! I love my 918 wheel on the Fanatec!

Peter is correct. Our systems are for people that want max performance gear, their simulator to arrive fully turn-key, tuned to the enth degree and white-glove support (for even the silliest questions).

DIY guys who like to tinker tend not to be our customers initially but some do end up buying our stuff after trying one :)

It's just like cars. The more you are willing to spend, the more performance/reliability/service you get........generally, there are always exceptions!

I've never driven a sim with a motion rig (not counting the one at your local amusement park when I was 12 years old :D). I'm really curious, now I have some experience with sims, how much this increases immersiveness, since most of the forces I encounter in a car (except for bumps) are long-during ones (braking, cornering g's ...) and I really wonder how a motion rig can transfer this.

I tried one of CXC's rigs once. Just amazing but out of my league.

A typical motion rig with actuators will never be able to reproduce or give you sustained forces. It's just a momentary acceleration of the seat from a particular angle. SimXperience tried a completely different concept not too long ago, with a G-Seat, where the seat has plates that apply pressure in order to reproduce sustained forces. Some users are reporting quite positive feedback, but have not tried it personally.
http://www.garagepitstop.com/store/m...nse_motion.jpg

About a year and a half ago I was visiting Dubai and Abu Dhabi, so I went to Ferrari World and tried their motion simulator, which was a real Ferrari strapped on top of a gigantic rig. The motion was disorienting to say the least, and there was naturally so much lag in the system it was counter productive than immersive.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5010/5...ab6773b7f6.jpg

I did try an actuator based sim (kind of like the CXC) couple of days later at the Dubai mall, and that was far better, but it was really like very enhanced force feedback, rather than simulating the motion of the car.
http://www.fbrand.it/vedit/15/albumf...7-43Rush_1.jpg


The thing is with any motion simulator, you simply can't replicate the amount of g-force in a car. There will also always be some lag between the sim's physics and the motion rig. The motion rig also creates its own momentum, and any sudden change in direction will ultimately lag behind. So the wider the range of motion, the more potential there is for the rig to be out of sync with the sim.

The interesting thing about any simulator system, especially a very dynamic one like a racing simulator, you obviously can't channel the virtual motion and feedback in the same as a real race car on track. So you have to try to deliver as much information as possible, and often that information is delivered differently. Your brain just has to do a bit more work to associate the different delivery mechanism with your expectations.

Having said that, with enough acclimation to a simulator, it doesn't quite matter if the simulator shakes, rattles, or rolls, as a driver you'll eventually be able to get useful feedback from what the virtual car is doing which will ultimately affect your ability to control the car and get some immersion. The key of course is that the feedback signal is fast and as synchronized as possible (minimum lag) ...and this is just for the tactile feedback! :)

Wow, this thread has me dreaming of new ways to spend some serious cash! Cockpits, video cards, G-seats, hydraulic race pedals - please stop before I do something stupid...

I had an opportunity to try one of CXC's simulators at the LeMay Car Museum in Tacoma, WA: http://www.cxcsimulations.com/news/c...-lemayseattle/

It was hyper cool, but I'm one of those that suffers from motion sickness - I even get a touch of motion sickness when I'm driving at the track. I just couldn't handle more than about 10 minutes in the CXC simulator. The motion enhanced the simulator feel; however, there is a lot of inaccuracy that can sometimes distract more than enhance. I don't want to sound overly critical, but most on this forum know the 'real' thing too well, so I expect that we have very high standards. There were times when the CXC rig did some amazing stuff: I recall some long sweeping corners that build up G's gradually - the simulator did a good job of giving the lateral G feel! Impressive stuff. Still, due to motion issues, I think that I'd be more interested in the G-seat that materianvii described.

Someday I'd love to have the funds to go all-in with a static rig. But I'm only to the level of playing Forza 5 with my racing wheel attached to the coffee table. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good quality wheel stand that I can move between my TV room and my computer room as needed? Stability would be key. Thanks in advance.

This is a great and timely thread, as I am beginning to shop for a simulator for my home...

Yeah I've had issues with motion, too - specifically, the lag. More distracting/disorienting than anything IMO. Even on the better systems, there was always just that SPLIT second delay. However, I do know some people that swear by it (including one friend of mine with a pretty nice racing resume who relies on his simXperience "stage 5" setup for training).

To the OP: I think the big question is going to be, what's your budget? That will dictate a lot. A reasonable starter system can be built from scratch for at or under $2k if you build it yourself. Figure more like $3k if you go with something pre-built. You can buy a wheel/pedal combo for under $300 or you can spend several thousand.

And of course, you'll probably get lots of opinions if you search - but MOST folks here on RL use iRacing. Excellent tracks, excellent car models, good solid community. IMO it's tough to beat.

I bought one for myself as a Christmas present. LOVE IT. Huge step up from the old Logitech.

Now I hear people raving about the direct-drive wheels (like the simXperience Accuforce wheel) saying they are an even bigger leap. Tough to justify (or hide from the wife) almost $2k for simulator parts though...

Yep, I can't recommend it enough. You've probably seen the review I did on it.
http://www.mockracer.com/2015/01/sim...ce-review.html

It's well worth the entrance fee. :cheers:

I hear good things about this stand: http://wheelstandpro.com/ People on iRacing who have this are saying its very sturdy.

Most folks I know could care less about the ultra high end stuff, the wheels are a good example.

G27=~$275 (with pedals that can be modded),

Fanatec CS Base plus GT or 918 wheel=~$750 (plus $250 for CS2 pedals)

ECCI or Bodnar direct drives=~$2000 plus (+$2000 pedals, http://www.h-engineering.net/sim-pedals-stock-update/)

While it's fine for aliens (people who spend all the time on their sims), these are, for most, tools to work at learning tracks better. For that, the basic or mid-level offerings work well, IMO.

I may sell two of my three systems soon, so if you (VR) are interested, PM me. Static with either triple and single (or no) screen, both have Fanatec Rennsport Cockpits, Core i7 with AMD 7870 GPUs, either Logitech G27 or Fanatec GT2 wheels, Fanatec CS pedals and maybe even my "vintage" Todd Cannon special pedals (identical as made for Dale, Jr. and Justin Wilson) at good savings.

Email sent, thanks

If you are using iracing, the tool inside the sim is really good for bezel and angle correction. Make sure to shut off all the windows and video card based corrections as they don't play well together. I recently switched to nvidia from ATI and I think the nvidia multimonitor interface is much easier and better to use. I've been really happy driving my triple 120hz monitors with the GTX 970. It's also really good for Virtual Reality headsets if you start to get into that.

Above all. When you get set up, come drop in with us on Wednesday nights. We have a really great community of rennlisters who have a blast battling it out on track. Think of it as emotional training, you will get the same physiological and psychological responses to stress that you do in any competitive environment and you can learn how to deal with those feelings in a controlled environment.

Peter i sent you an email when you have some time.

Thanks

Anthony

That's probably the best, most concise way of stating that, that I've ever seen. I just may steal that and use it in the future.

@ProCoach - Todd Cannons, eh? Those are old school load cell pedals right?

Nice swag. :)

While I do fall into the bucket of "people who spend all their time on a sim", and do a driving school once every two years when I save up enough money to blow, I wouldn't discount the high end necessarily. The reason I say this is that the sim market hasn't yet had high end peripherals that actually deliver high end performance until only very recently (say one or two years ago.) When the stars actually start to align, something very interesting happens, and your brain starts operating and responding differently, than just pedaling some playstation game around. There is a massive, and I mean, massive difference between HE pedals and Fanatec CSPs, vs Fanatec CSPs and something from Mad Katz. There is also an equally different gap between a direct drive that delivers anything over 12Nm of steering torque and has minimal latency, and the high end Fanatec stuff, vs mid to lower end stuff. (I use Fanatec, because they sit at the very high end of reasonable, before you get to ridiculous.) To illustrate graphically the level of difference between equipment performance consider it like so:
<low end stuff> ------------------<Fanatec High End>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<Ultra High End>

You really have to try the ultra high end stuff to really unlock the potential of sims, like iRacing, as something beyond just a tool for learning the track. At some point it gets to even physical endurance, and that in itself plays on mental endurance. On top of the the increased resolution, response, and reduction of lag start to make the virtual cars just drive better, and will require much more similar input techniques as you would on track. Like say the way you would apply brake pressure and trail off the brakes, or how you would roll onto the throttle. Even the high-mid range Fanatec load cell stuff doesn't give you that. You really have to go really high end.

Then again, I do fall into that bucket, and perhaps people like me may just be more sensitive to the differences, but having recently switched to HE Pro pedals and the AccuForce wheel, my simracing has become different, and makes a lot more sense compared to what I've done on my track days. The telemetry also looks a lot better!

Sim technology is still far off the real thing, but its getting better, unfortunately to get to that next level, you have to go to the end of the high end spectrum. Not that you can't manage below that, but as you say, it will be nothing more than a track learning tool. Plus, for anyone who spends $1000 on a set of tires, even the most high end stuff is chump change by comparison.

I've virtually raced in a private league with a NASCAR Sprint Cup driver who was in his sauna for the entire three-hour race! Hahaha! Talk about duplicating stress...

Yep, the infamous Todd Cannon. I bought these things back in 2008 when he was building every one of them custom for a variety of top level pro drivers and sim racers. The only other pedals available at that time were Frex, from Japan. I love my CST's! Glad I got them before Todd self destructed...

Masterianvii, I meant no slam... Your posts, blog and reviews are great. It's just that the difference between these is like the differences between a Boxster S, a 991 GT3 and a 918. They all make you smile, but the price of admission (and the ultimate performance capability among all three)is vastly different! :)

Didn't take it that way, not at all. :cheers: You are right, the price of admission is that significant. I just wanted to highlight that what you get in return is not marginal. It is worth the value, and if someone is serious about their training, they shouldn't settle for less. Except for the Bodnar wheel, at nearly $4500 that thing is ridiculously overpriced and doesn't even include the wheel rim!! :roflmao: ...but it was the first DD system to market.

Another way to look at it is that higher end sim hardware doesn't provide performance, as much as it closes a gap between the simulation and the driver. The closer it gets the more exponential the results are, as it's a two way communication between the driver and the sim.

...

I wish Todd was around a bit longer to at least make that H-Shifter.

:cheers:

Yes, it does...

And yes, I wish that had happened...

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...67c5146463.jpg
On the bargain end, I found that a hand truck makes a pretty decent platform if you have and old Porsche seat sitting around (don't all of us?).

:eek::roflmao: That is genius! This is the most brilliant thing I've seen since the ab roller wheel stand!

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...-stand.218882/

Hmmmmm my post disappeared.

Is that a Mazda painted in SBelles SPB colors? :cool:

Yes it is but I've since upgraded to triple monitors and ditched the laptop for a decent PC from MaineGear.

For years I did it the most basic way where I only had a G25 wheel clamped to a desk sitting in an office chair and had only one monitor (actually it was a 32" TV). Then the big upgrade a couple of years ago was to switch to a G27 with a load cell installed on the brake. But I was still clamping the wheel to the desk and still sitting in an office chair. There is a lot wrong here. The biggest problem was seating position. I was exposing myself to a lot of fatigue as this seating position causes me to hunch over the wheel. Another big problem was the wheel was clamped to the desk and every once in a while in the heat of the moment I would pull down on the wheel in a corner and the wheel would come loose.

Last month I decided it was time to get a sturdy rig with the most important requirement being in the proper seating position and to have the wheel bolted down instead of clamped. I did a little research and settled on the RSEAT N1 option (though I should have gone with 80/20 tube if I was really hardcore). I was also tempted to go with a high end wheel (something like the DD Accuforce Pro) and highend hydraulic brakes. But now we are getting into the thousands of dollars here and decided instead to meet somewhere in the middle and I ordered the Fanatec V2 Wheel Hub, Porsche 918 Wheel, Fanatec V3 pedals with damper and Fanatec SQ Shifter as these mid range controllers should be better than my current controllers but still not break the bank like the high end gear would. I was thinking I needed triples and I wanted proper gaming monitors with fast refresh rates and not use TVs. But upon reading what people are saying about the immersion of the new VR headsets. I decided to roll the dice and give VR a shot. Plus I could save a little money with VR since I can continue to use the 32" TV as the main monitor and not have to buy 3 new 27" monitors. Finally to power the VR headset, I have built a new computer with the i7 6700 Intel Chip, 16 GB of RAM and I picked up the new NVidia 1080 GPU.

Now this rig mentioned above does not exist yet, at least it's not in my home. The new computer is sitting at home with nothing installed on it except iRacing and Project Cars (oh I do have some VR games and demos also installed). Plus I decided to go with the Vive VR headset over the Oculus except I will need to wait for iRacing to support the Vive. The rig will be delivered to my home hopefully before the end of the week and the wheel, pedals and shifter should also be delivered sometime soon. Hopefully in a week or two it will all be setup and I will be running Nordschleife in a Porsche RUF GT-8 car in VR using Project Cars as well as running the Formula Renault car also in VR at Spa and Monaco as well as a number of other GP tracks while I wait for iRacing to support the Vive.

Is this a game or is it a training tool? I think it is a little of both. I will never drive a Formula Renault car at Monaco, Spa or any other GP track. But visiting Nordschleife is on my bucket list. So all laps I have done to date at the Green Hell in iRacing as well as in Project Cars as well as all future laps I plan to do will go towards preparing me for the real deal. :D

Some good points in here.

Since the quoted post above was written, I've had the opportunity to try out some "high end" gear @ Crimson Simulation, the last time I was in NYC on business. (Rented a car one night and drove up to CT...)

As I currently have a Fanatec CSW V2 wheel base (w/918 wheel) and home-grown pedals (using actual automotive equipment), I was curious to see just how good the "good" stuff was.

And I was totally blown away.

SO blown away I declared a credit card emergency and bought a set of Heusinkveld Engineering "pro" pedals on the spot. :) I thought my hydraulic pedals were good... these were excellent. And not even the "top of the line" Ultimates, either. And when I got them installed at home, I was immediately able to threshold brake more accurately.

The DD wheels are also impressive. Though I did feel that the CSW wheels he had on display had the forces turned down a bit (certainly much softer than how I have my wheel set), the CSW wheel wasn't bad. Comparing it to the OSW he had hooked up, the OSW definitely felt a little better - more detail stronger forces, etc. but I didn't come away saying "WOW I MUST HAVE IT".

Then I tried the Bodnar wheel. It's BIG bucks but the fidelity is AMAZING. As much as the CSW made my Logitech feel like a toy... the Bodnar wheel made the CSW feel like one.

Same car, same track, same conditions, similar PC builds, all triple monitors with the same platform and motion rigs... I was ~1s faster on the Bodnar wheel in the Miata around Laguna as I was with the OSW wheel. Laptimes with CSW vs. OSW were actually close enough for me to declare "equal".

But the Bodnar wheel is incredible. Tough to describe, but you get a LOT more information coming through that wheel than the others.

IF you really want to TRAIN for real-life driving, and take it seriously... the Bodnar is worth the money.

Next time you guys are ever out east (for a coaching gig or whatever) I'd highly recommend checking out Crimson Simulation to demo some high end hardware.

What are your current hydraulic pedals that you are referring to? I have a set of HPP PRX-SEs on order; their hydraulic setup looks to be as good as they come.

Crimson looks like an awesome place. Did you happen to try out their Rexing wheel?

My now "old" set of pedals were home-built. For the brake, I used a master cylinder out of an old International Scout, a fuel pressure injection sensor out of (I believe, memory is fuzzy, I forget exactly what truck it came from) an International T444E, and wired it to a Plasma-Lite USB project board. Throttle pedal was a drive-by-wire unit out of an International 4700-series truck. Clutch pedal I just used the old clutch pedal stolen out of my G27 pedal set. (At the time that I put all this stuff together, I worked in software engineering for Navistar/International Truck and had access to stuff...)

So it was a true pressure-sensitive brake pedal. And the throttle pedal, being an actual unit out of a vehicle, was robust enough that I didn't have to worry about pots wearing out, etc.

I went through several iterations - the "v1.0" of this utilized a rear master cylinder from a motorcycle... though over time it couldn't stand up to the pressures of me stomping on it. After burning through a few of those, I upgraded to the version out of the truck. And "v1.0" was also first built back in ~2001, long before there were commercially-available pressure-sensitive pedals on the market.

It's served me really well and they were definitely better than a lot of entry-level stuff out there. But the Heusinkveld pedals are definitely a step above.

The "Rexing" wheel? I don't *think* so? I tried 3 rigs, one had a CSW v2 wheel w/HE Pro pedals, one had a Bodnar wheel with HE Ultimates, and one was a OSW with HPP pedals.

As I am now unexpectedly carless for the season and no chance to get a replacement car until next season, I have started to dust off my iRacing setup. I currently have a G27 hooked up to a stand and a 110" projector. Moving from a monitor to a projector was a huge upgrade. Piggy-backing on the game vs. tool question, how much does the mid-range equipment really change the experience? I struggle with the lack of sensation for motion/speed. It just feels unrealistic. Does improved pedal feel/feedback make that much of a difference? Curious what rennlisters think given real driving/racing experience.

I also need to figure out the best way to take advantage of my seat I pulled from my car.

While I wouldn't necessarily say that mid-grade (or higher) equipment will make you FASTER, it will make you more consistent for sure.

The G27 is great for what it is... an entry-level FFB wheel. Plenty of guys get by just fine. What you get with an upgraded wheel: stronger PEAK forces, and significantly more detailed mid-level forces. It's easier to feel the front tires giving way. Bumps, rumbles, and other subtle track surface details come through more clearly. It becomes easier to FEEL what the car is doing in the sim.

Are you still running the stock G27 pedals? If so... then I'd be torn between two potential "first" upgrade paths.

1) Upgrade those pedals. A good brake pedal can make a BIG difference. Either buy a better standalone pedal set (Fanatec CSP's for $250, or if you have more budget, a good set of HE, HPP, etc. pedals) or upgrade the existing brake pedal (Perfect Pedal for the G27). Getting a better brake pedal will help a bunch with consistency.

2) Ditch the projector, and go with either (a) a triple screen setup or (b) an Oculus Rift. Getting the wider field-of-view (triples) or ability to see around you (Rift) will do a lot for both immersion, as well as speed and consistency. My personal vote is Rift over triples... I came from triples, Rift has HUGE immersion. If you don't want to go that route (it does take a pretty stout PC), triples are a good Plan B.

After that, then look at upgrading the other equipment.

Wow Jim, that's some serious DIY treatment there! I don't know if the HPPs you used at Crimson were the new PRX-SE, but what was your opinion of the HPP vs the HE's you tried?

This is the Rexing wheel being used at Crimson (the video is not mine or me):

Alex - upgrading your FOV will make a big difference when it comes to the feeling of speed. Triples will certainly help with that, as would VR (but I personally will be waiting for resolution and lag times to improve there).

I'm using triple 46" projectors, so its big with huge immersion. The game changer for me though was adding motion to my rig. I have the SimXperience Stage4, the rear traction loss is amazing. If this isn't in the budget, SimVibe can trick you into feeling slight motion (kind of but not really). My biggest improvement was upgrading to the Accuforce wheel with a real Momo Mod 30.

Ah ok the physical wheel. I do think that's actually the wheel I used on the Bodnar system. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other... I was more focused on the Bodnar system than the actual steering wheel. :) It felt nice in my hands!

As for HE vs HPP... I did not particularly like the HPP's when compared to the HE's, though it may have been entirely due to their physical setup and configuration. I recall struggling to heel/toe (so that's just a placement issue, totally configurable), though I also recall the braking action didn't feel as progressive. Was tough to modulate and threshold brake, compared to both HE's.

The HE Ultimates were by far the best... smooth operation, progressive feel... but at $1,600... was a tough sell. The HE Pro's were pretty close to the Ultimates in feel, maybe a little less smooth (the Ultimates have hydraulic dampers) but close enough that I couldn't resist leaving without ordering a set.

VR is still in it's infancy. But it is the future of sim racing. Check out this video that was posted a few days ago. This fellow setup a green screen, filming his hands and wheel while he drove in an iRacing race around Nordschleife. He then combined the two streams into one to give us an idea of what VR racing is like right now. Of course he can't see his hands and wheel when he has the head set on. But what I think is really cool with this video is there appears to be depth, almost as if the viewer of the video is there in the car during the race.



Real world racing will always be better than the virtual world. But just imagine where the virtual world will be in a few years from now when the current VR headset matures a little more.

I've been using VR for the last... ~4 years? I got in on the initial Oculus Dev Kit. The screen clarity was pretty bad BUT it *was* usable (borderline, but usable... tho LOTS of people argue against that). Dev Kit 2 got a lot better... to me, totally usable. Consumer Version is definitely prime-time to me.

Some people need/want 100% crystal clear 4K+ style resolution. To me, it just feels like I'm nearsighted again (before I had lasik)... so maybe I'm the oddball but I have 0 issues seeing what I need to see. Really, most of the folks I know that still complain about the clarity in the CV1 are guys who are more die-hard PC gamer guys who are used to seeing mega clarity on their LCD monitors.

I recently took on a consulting gig with a company that builds FAA-certified flight simulators. We're developing a new VR-based platform... and so far, feedback from existing pilots (who are NOT at all gaming enthusiasts) are completely blown away with the CV1 performance and clarity.

It takes some hefty horsepower to drive the CV1 flawlessly. I think graphics card and CPU power have to come along a bit before we can get much more clarity out of a VR headset.

Been wondering how the cv has been working with iracing.

with a good h-pattern shifter, can you/do you have to heal toe? I have a fanatic setup I use with my xbox, but none of the games I have take into consideration the clutch.

I often want to strangle that Aussie bastard when he tells me I've cut the course and have to slow down after I've been punted off the track and already lost a bunch of time.

Yes, unless you turn on "auto clutch" but then the shifts happen REALLY slowly.

I've tried the Dev Kit 2 and the prod release Oculus.
But every time I try VR / Oculus - I get close to nausea.
I'll stop or take a break, and haven't had an actual problem
yet, but I can feel it coming on a lot more than in a traditional rig.
The other problem I have is that your head gets pretty warm over 30 mins.

I think whatever the rate of people suffering from motion sickness
with 3 monitor setups is, it'll be double when they try VR.

I wonder if others that have tried VR agree? And if maybe the GPU power
and resolution needs to go a lot higher to mitigate it?

Ive got two AMD cards running in Crossfire, does that pose any issues with the Oculus? They work fine in iRacing..

Last month I ordered the Rift, they have a small app that can test your computer to see if you have the level of hardware you are going to need. I need to upgrade my video card, looking at the setup it just connects though a single HDMI cable, Jim can confirm as he has it already.

I was just checking as Crossfire and/or SLI can cause issues in some instances, usually a software problem. It shouldn't as it isn't new technology but sometimes it does..

It seems there are a lot of component options discussed in this thread. Is there a "go to" company to get a proven high-end system?

Some people are more susceptible. Some people have reported getting their "sea legs", so to say, after a bit of use. Some people can't get over it. You might be one of the unfortunate ones that just can't get over it. I do think you're likely in a minority tho.

No one that has personally tried MY setup has had nausea. I can say that the only time *I* have ever experienced nausea due to the Rift, was when frame rates were too low. Guaranteed... I turn green pretty quickly once things get choppy in the Rift.

Otherwise, never an issue. And I have issues with carsickness (can't read while in a car, etc) and seasickness. Can't read on a plane either. (Makes 4hr trips to LAX a bitch!)

Shouldn't have an issue though I'm fairly certain iRacing generally does NOT take advantage of SLI/Crossfire.

Future updates to the Oculus software are going to include special SLI/CF support, such that they will split the rendering duties by eyeball... one card for the left eye, one card for the right.

It will require an update to the actual game being used, too (iRacing) so this kind of support is likely further down the road.

Yeah the Rift needs two USB 3.0 ports, and an HDMI port.

Won't cause problems but likely (at least in iRacing) won't give any benefits, either.

My recommendation would be Main Performance PC. I've referred a few local Chicago peeps to him, he's a long time iRacer, has a great rep and has knowledge on building iRacing-specific machines. https://www.mainperformancepc.com/

And if you want to go with some really super duper NICE hardware (professional grade steering wheels, etc.) then you can give these guys a call: https://crimsonsimulation.com/

Met him personally a few weeks ago when I was in NYC on business and stopped at his shop. In addition to having a lot of the stuff on demo, he will build and ship you a setup. Tell him Jim from Chicago sent you :)

Good friend has a full motion seat in his rig. Everyone who tries out his setup wants to try the motion seat, and nearly everyone gets annoyed with it and turns it off fairly quickly. I personally don't see the value in it.

Yeah I'm the same way. Each and every time I've tried a motion rig I haven't liked it. Winds up being more of a distraction than anything... and there's always a delay. It takes the electronics time to process that you hit a bump in the sim, send the signal to the actuators, and the actuators to process the signal and convert it to motion.

Friend of mine has a $40k+ racing rig, with motion. I brought my Rift over to try the two together (should be AWESOME, right?)... I couldn't last 15 minutes before wanting to hurl. Once you're wrapped in VR the delay in the motion becomes REALLY apparent. Your eyes tell you that you hit a bump... the view moves "bump!"... THEN you feel the bump.

I am very much NOT a proponent of motion sims. Fun for amusement park rides, to throw the rider around... but not fast enough response time to serve as a legit training feature.

I'm going to disagree on the motion comments here.

I was totally fine with a stationary rig until my local Porsche dealer held a contest to send a winner to Barber. CXC brought one of their 'seat mover' rigs over. I set the 6th fastest time in the opening round of the competition on Laguna (only to get smoked in the finals running Barber). This was the first time I've ever felt nervous anxiety (in a good way) while sim racing. I felt much more connected to what the car was doing and that my actions had actual consequences. Definitely tricks the brain. Going back to my static rig at home felt like everything was lacking. I knew then I had to have motion.

The common problem most people have when commenting negatively on motion is that they tried it at a car show, a festival, or some event. These rigs are usually set up with over exaggerated motion for wow factor - and they are usually horrible. With my SimXperience setup, I can custom tune each component of the motion via SimCommander software to my liking. You need very little motion to get the proper effect.

I can certainly see how current VR mixed with a motion setup that is not dialed in properly could result in a bad experience. In general, the lag is not in the motion (the actuators are updated 250 times per second), most lag comes with displays (VR or standard). In fact, with better gear (motion rig, direct drive wheels, etc) you can catch slides earlier and thus easier as you can feel what is happening, rather than just seeing it.

After research. I liked this site: http://www.mockracer.com/2014/12/how...groom.html?m=1

I will probably use an oculus over screens though

I tried the oculus on Iracing but the focus was off as the owner wore glasses and I have 20/15. I definitely had some motion issues but chalked it up to his setup due to needing glasses.

True that there are places where they're set up to "overkill" mode. I was anti-motion after trying a CXC, a Blue Tiger, and even a Force Dynamics unit a few times in a row over the years at the Chicago Auto Show.

I was told the same thing: those units are cranked up for "effect" at shows.

Then I tried my buddy's simXperience "stage 5" rig... and was not impressed, still had delays. He's a BIG proponent for motion platforms, has won a few national championships. I still argue it's not worth it, I could still tell there was a lag.

Same with the motion seats at Crimson.

To each their own I guess.

Thank you all for the advice earlier. I will think about the triple platform. I do love having a 110" screen though! I just wish there was a way to get more of the outside of the car field of view in with a projector setup. I find it hard to look through the corners the way I would in a real car.

What software/game do you guys use for little kids? My daughter comes down and pretend plays all the time. iRacing is no fun for her since she just crashes (she's pretty young).

Project Cars allows you to setup a CPU teammate to take over from you when you enter the pits (handy if you want to do endurance races in the game). You can do an out lap, enter the pits, select the CPU teammate, and then let the computer take over while the little ones have fun pretending that they are driving.

Look into Miniville mod for rFactor/ rFactor2.

Momo Mod 88 Sam Maxwell Wheel for sale

http://www.sammaxwellcustoms.com/

Wheel is $900 plus new, selling for $550

Pm for details or email acarbonejr@yahoo.com

Can I pay someone in Atlanta to purchase and setup all this stuff for me? Too many options.

There's a good article on simulation hardware and software in the 8/23/16 issue of "Speed Secrets".

So what's the deal with VR "goggles", is the clarity as good as a high end monitor? Refresh? Ghosting? How about the motion sickness aspect? Even with a monitor I used to get violently ill with some of the earlier 1st person games when moving around inside of structures, actually took pills to keep my stomach settled and knew when to quit. Hasn't happened in years but I have no desire to invite it back!

Jim is the best guy to talk to about that because he has tried both versions of the oculus rift. I've run the DK2 and it's a toss up between that and triple monitors for me. With triples, I like the ergonomics and ability to have a drink and not have my wife scare the life out of me if she needs to get my attention while I'm "plugged in". The DK2 is incredibly involving, just a bit low resolution. If I want to blow someones mind, I'll set them up for a lap around the Nurburgring in VR. I don't ever get motion sick, so I'm no help to you there. For me it's 120hz triples > DK2 > single monitor

I cannot speak about the Oculus Rift CV1 directly since I do not own one. I own the HTC Vive. But the Rift and Vive have a lot of common performance characteristics. What's the deal? It's the immersion factor. You actually feel like you are in the car (minus the physical G-Force and hard braking effects of course). Sure the resolution while under the VR HMD hood is not ideal. But it's easy to look beyond the less than ideal resolution and embrace the ability to trick your brain into thinking you are in the actual vehicle and to be able to actually look to you apexes like you would in the real world on a hairpin turn is awesome. I can go on and on all day about it trying to describe it. But really you need to try it to know what I am talking about.

In regards to motion sickness, so far I have been really lucky as any sickness I have had has not even occurred while driving in my VR racing sim. Or if it had happened in the sim, it is minimal and lasts only a second or two. In otherwords the only time I ever experienced motion sickness in VR was one day when I was doing this VR tech demo where I am exploring this midevil castle and I was constantly teleporting from point A to point B to point C, etc, etc, etc with barely anytime between teleports. After many minutes of this constant jumping around all of a sudden the sickness hit me. Not a big deal. I took the HMD off, and spent about 10 or so minutes to recover before coming back and this time not jumping around the demo as fast as I was before. Then the few times in the racing sim I have had a hint of sickness was when I was traveling in the sim at a high rate of speed, F'ed up and ran into a wall coming to a sudden dead stop. In these cases I have experienced very very very minor sickness which only lasts a few seconds. Of course had this happened (coming to a sudden dead stop in the real world), it would have hurt a lot more than it did in VR. :roflmao:

I am still not sure if all the motion sickness being reported by the iRacing people is:

1) Just the luck of the draw for each person?
2) Is there a difference between the Rift and the Vive? iRacing does not support the Vive yet.
3) Are people experiencing the sickness not using high end GPUs like my 1080?
4) Is iRacing's VR implementation inferior to some of the other racing sims?

#4 should be answered in a few weeks when iRacing supports the Vive in the coming September 6th release.

Anyway, VR is the bomb. I highly recommend people try it for themselves. It is a game changer as far as my experiences are concerned and it will only get better in the years to come. The immersion factors of the present day 1st GEN VR HMDs make up for the less than ideal resolution.

Justin and My993 both have excellent posts.

The Rift CV1 is a step up in clarity and resolution from the DK2. The DK2 seemed to be borderline, maybe a 50/50 split: some felt the clarity was "good enough", some didn't. When CV1 was released, a lot of people who complained about the DK2's clarity claimed that the CV1 was now "good enough" - maybe a 90/10 split now.

It's not 4K resolution. Don't expect it to be laser sharp like a nice big 120/144Hz monitor. If you squint, or if you want to be picky, you can stare at the screen hard enough and see the pixels. Far, far away distance is not as clear (because you run into limitations of the screen and how small the pixels are, relative to the detail it's trying to draw.)

That said - if you move your head even a little, your brain does an amazing job of picking up details as they're rendered and putting the picture together. If you go into it with the plan to just relax and drive, within a few minutes, you don't even notice that it's a little fuzzy. Your brain fills it in. To me, it's a little bit like being every so slightly nearsighted. Your brain compensates.

The screen is clear enough that, in the RUF, I can read the tire pressure #'s on the dash. I've used the Rift on tracks I know, and completely new tracks I've never driven before, and have been 100% fine. To me, I would not run it any other way.

I started off with the DK1, which by CV1 standards, was HORRIBLE resolution. After a week of playing with the DK1, I wanted to run an official race so I swapped back to my triples (1920x1080 BenQ screens) and the world seemed so FLAT. I took my triples down that afternoon and never put them back up.

The immersion. The 3D. The ability to use your DEPTH perception, the ability to check over your shoulder.... to ME, it FAR outweighs having a bigger 2D screen.

It's hard to describe unless you've experienced it. Without the Rift, when you are placed "in the car" in the sim, you see a picture on your screen of a RUF dashboard. With the Rift, you are IN the RUF.

As for motion sickness... there are definitely reports of it out there.

The only time *I* have ever experienced it is when I spun the car and rolled backwards. Rolling backwards and turning instantly hits me. I don't know why. OH and when I tried using my DK1 on a SimXperience Stage 5 motion sim. Otherwise, I generally DO get motion sickness - I can't read while in the car, etc. But outside of the two instances above, NEVER had an issue.

I've witnessed a few friends experience motion sickness. In those cases, I'm fairly positive it's because the lense adjustments were not correct - I have a wide head, they had a narrow head, and we did not go through the setup to adjust for their eyes. Seems MOST of the complaints out there about motion sickness also seem to relate to people not properly setting up their IPD.

I have been looking at this for a while but I guess I haven't looked hard enough...

what does the complete shopping list look like for an VR (eg rift) setup look like?
can it be done for 1k? 2k?

Marc

Are you starting from scratch with your computer and sim racing controllers or can you piece together a VR capable rig based on some existing hardware you may already have? If you are starting new, it won't be cheap and you will definitely need a high end video card. Not necessarily the 1080 GPU, but don't skimp on the video card. Without it, there is no point in jumping into VR because a system that performs poorly might turn you off of VR not because VR is bad but because your system cannot handle it.

Keep in mind I am posting dollar amounts here using our funny Canadian money which has tanked in the last few years. But I recently put together a new dedicated sim racing rig and here is what it cost me:

- i7 6700 CPU with 16 GB RAM and nVidia 1080 GPU - $2300 CDN.
- HTC Vive VR HMD system - $1200 CDN.
- RSeat N1 racing rig - a little over $2500 CDN.
- Fanatec V2 Wheel Hub, V3 pedals, Shifter, Porsche Wheel and F1 Wheel - a little over $3000 CDN.

Plus numerous other small items like an audio headset, a license for voice recognition software (which makes controlling the system while you are under the VR hood easier), tripods for my VR lighthouses, etc, etc, etc. This all added more to the final total. So I am a bit over $9k (in Canadian monopoly money) for my new VR sim racing rig. I should have gone with an 80/20 rig instead of the RSeat N1 rig. The N1 is not bad, but 80/20 would have been better. Plus my Fanatec wheel, pedal and shifter controllers are only mid-range sim racing controllers. I could have spent a lot more had I bought high end Direct Drive wheels and high end pedals. But I did not skimp on the computer or the GPU and it is all worth every penny that I spent for VR.

Until you try VR you don't really know how immersive it can be.

My993's costs are about right once you convert back to USD.

I have a similar PC, but I'm using a nVidia 1070 GPU (a step down from the 1080) and it handles iRacing in VR without breaking a sweat... so you can save a few bucks there.

Also note that, if your only intent for VR is sim racing - the Vive *is* more expensive. I believe the Vive sells for ~$900 USD, and the Oculus sells for $600. The difference is that the Vive comes with VR hand controllers, and the Rift does not (yet... when released the Rift's hand controllers will be +$300).

So if you're just going to be iRacing, the Rift is cheaper. The Rift also includes a mic and speakers... and the speakers actually DO sound REALLY good. Enough that I use them over my 5.1 audio system.

Anyone in the CT area want to take a spin in the GT3 rig to help me refine the prototype?

http://www.isrtv.com/motion-simulato...he-motion-rig/

Wow! It would be worth the trip up there to spend some time on that. :thumbup:

Looks a lot like the one GPX labs in Miami uses.

Oh my...!

As usual, answers quickly escalate in value and complexity, here on RL! ;)

You could put something together for a little over $2K, but not $1K, from scratch. Most of the gear below blows through that budget, though.

You'll need a 970 (or R9 480) or better GPU for Rift (and I'm only speaking of Rift because I only have experience with both Development Kits and have a Rift now), so at minimum, https://www3.oculus.com/en-us/oculus-ready-pcs/

For instance here: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/clp/ocul...at748301736879 plus a Logitech wheel and pedals could get you in at right around $2K.

Of course, I went nuts on the PC side because the more capability of the hardware, the better the detail will scale and the less the latency. But it's good to start, even on a single screen setup, just to begin to learn the sims.

I'll be right over!!

I'm setting up testing times. Would love to have more opinions. :]

Will have to make a detour for this! Sweet work.

Wow, that's a simulator.

Thanks guys.

I've gotten a couple of PMs, would love to have a day were several individuals could come by and put the simulator through its paces. It's still a prototype and as such still has bugs but hoping with help from pro and novice drivers I can make it better.

Please PM me if you're in the CT Fairfield county area so we can put it through it paces and I can further develop.

I'll update this post from time to time as I'm working with Kunos to make it better.

Also, while not as pretty or finished as gpxs simulator, I have a few differentiating factors that make my simulator stand out. A couple I can't speak about yet.

Thanks

Fantastic

Got that email - excited to try it out!

WOW that's a hell of a setup!!!!

First thing I noticed when watching the lap of the Nurb - you need front fenders (or some kind of cutout to block the view you'd normally lose with fenders there).

Actually you don't see that normally, the GoPro sits about 4 inches over my head. Usually you don't see the front fenders in full from the normal seating position. Depending on your height of course. I like my seating poisition low, with the top of the wheel even with the tip of my nose.

I've also added a cowl to represent where the hood lip would be to further enhance the realism. I'll have video up soon with the additional changes.

The prototype is constantly evolving and I appreciate the feedback. :)

Great sim LLMK!

Did try the simcraft. The most impressive thing was the full motion and accuracy of the track. The bumps at Mosport are a huge factor in determining how and where to do things. The program was very accurate.

Braking was nearly impossible to 'feel'

https://vimeo.com/91272399

Yeah simcraft are great even though I think they're more suited to flight sims. I've tried all motion systems out there and nothing replicates a cars suspension better than Dbox. The tactile and motion they provide are unparalleled. The surface of the road and curb strips especially feel real. That is what differentiates Dbox vs. any other motion system.

This looks incredible. Great work. I'm in CT (west central). I would love to give this a try if possible.

Kunos as in the Kunos from Assetto Corsa?

Yes, I have a good friend who knows them personally. They love my rig so I'm trying to get official support.

In the meantime I'm working hard on rifining the prototype. Adjusting camera angles, motion profiles, steering angles, and projection warps, etc.

I'm looking to get a couple guys with driving experience as well as novice drivers. All welcome to help in my development. The prototype is rough around the edges but keeps getting better.

PM me so we can setup some driving time.

That would be very impressive if you get support from Kunos.

PM sent.

Lumbergs - if you haven't already, you might reach out to Naid @ Crimson Simulation for his feedback as well. He's in Norwalk.

That's a win for iRacing, bet they just port over the RUF car with a couple tweeks though. What i'd like to see now is "iRacing Classic" with old 911's, Alfa's, Ferrari's, Lotus's, etc.... :D

Yup, Naid has been over and helped with initial testing. He's coming back this week.

Spoke to RFactor 2 Dev today, some things cooking!

Lumberg, that set up looks amazing! I'm in CT (New Haven area) and would love to give it a try some time!

Frank,
Still happy with this?

Very happy except for the brake pedal feel. It's too stiff with not enough travel right now. My son told me he'd fix that for me. Fell free to come by and try it out sometime.

Frank, is it the Perfect Pedal on a G27? If so, using a small syringe to remove some of the fluid is the procedure for turning it into a "GT" pedal feel from a "formula/prototype" pedal feel.

Dan, there are a number of folks I've recommended this vendor and setup to and none of them have been disappointed. It's inexpensive for what it is, the Velocity Micro systems are killer (and the fellow that owns the company tracks a 991 Turbo) and the support is good.

Most vendors that sell the parts to put one of these together don't provide much if any after sales support. Main Performance is good, but again, they don't really sell turn-key systems, only individual, optimized components that YOU put together. The Sim Seats setup is designed, built, sold and supported as a finished product. And the next price point up is Virtual GT or Chris Considine's CXC equipment...

For the more casual sim driver, the Sim Seats system works very well.

$5K for a ready to go system with full support behind it is a darn good deal IMO.. you going virtual Dan?

I am virtual Gary. Virtually what is up for discussion at this point

Frank that brake sounds like 7 Cup

:thumbup:

Let me know if you need any assistance, I can even build you a high end sim computer for a lot less than buying one built (with the same specs)...

As somebody who has built, used and sold these inexpensive simulators for nearly twenty years, the issue for end users is not the selection of components or even establishing a budget, it's making sure it all works together, to start with. More importantly, making sure this collection of components and software KEEPS working together so that it is a seamless experience, rather than something you have to screw with all the time.

Like everything else, it's the transition between geeky users who have climbed the steep learning curve to the people that want to use it as a resource and learning tool, without "issues," that is the hard part.

For those with no (or not much) budget limitations, there are good solutions like Thomas Maher, Kyle Marcelli and Chris Considine. But for most of us, the ability to buy a turn-key, static (adding motion can easily triple the initial investment) sim that "just works" is really important.

There is no shortage of places to buy individual components, and I recommend a wide variety of components for every budget that enterprising, savvy folks can spend time putting together and fettling JUST like a car ;), but the turn-key solutions are rare, especially with adequate support. This is why consoles are so popular (XBOX One, PS4 Pro), but you can't beat the PC platforms for realism, graphical detail and configurability, both in the software, hardware and display options.

Do you need Oculus Rift, Vive or triple screens to have an effective tool? No, but they do increase the immersion. My teaching units are simple VisionRacer VR3 and Fanatec Rennsport Cockpits with state of the art PC's and good, but not over the top, hardware. One HS a single screen and is more than adequate for doing lead-follow or hosting virtual private track walks for one or a group of drivers (in the comfort of their own home or shop).

It's a worthwhile option for many drivers, with a learning curve that can be close to being as steep as IRL (in real life). I urge folks to look at it as they do their own driving, not to jump into online racing quickly (if at all), but use it for familiarization and practice on tracks they've never been to or tracks they know well... it's been proven to be valuable for many folks.

For some, it's worth a trip to GPX Lab in Miami, CXC in SoCal or Earthbound Flying Machines in the Pacific Northwest, just to sample using the more advanced simulators with the oversight and assistance of experienced leaders in the field, like Jeff Segal (GPX), Chris Considine (CXC) and Eric Purcell (EFM). Just a visit and a discussion can clarify many questions and provide answers. There are some new ventures in the Boston area, as well.

Good stuff and proof there are reasonable, economical and practical solutions for those folks not wanting to spend a fortune.

In money OR in time spent... :)

Great post and I agree with most of it. But as a self serving plug for our little iracing league I think actually competing online teaches a lot of skills that can be better learned in the safety of a sim. Racing's not the first step as you need to get comfortable in the sim and able to run consistent laps, but if a sim is going to be used for racing training, then why not include the parts that translate directly to real world racing. I'm referring to emotional control, mental focus, and strategy. Throwing a pass on someone online is as exhilarating as it is in real life for me and controlling that emotion and refocusing while the car is filling my mirrors translates directly to the real world. Setting up a pass a few corners in advance is something you can only really do with a competitor who is a real human. Following closely behind another car and not getting tunnel vision to the bumper is yet another skill that you need other real people on the virtual track for.

I trust our league members to make better decisions on track than I do the local racers at the real track, and I'm confident that it's from the 30+ races we do every year online.

Hahaha! The thing that makes YOUR online racing league work is that everyone gets to know who they're racing with! :)

You're right. On all counts.

Agreed!

Pretty sure my gloves and seat are still a little sweaty from last night's run LOL!

IMO the MENTAL aspects are the PRIMARY thing you learn in a simulator. Not car control, not the track, etc. Obviously they are things you learn too but the mental stuff is where I feel I get the MOST out of simracing. Consistency, operating under pressure, hitting my marks, recovering from mistakes, learning to breathe and relax, etc.

The way I win online races is staying ON TRACK! :D

Here's a nice little portable setup coming out soon: http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonyk.../#12ec7937a886

Hahaha yes attrition does seem to play a big role in our league nights ;) Speaking of.... why don't you come out and join us? Chicken? Bok bok booook! ;)

I dig that triple monitor laptop. I'd never use it for gaming but damn I'd love something like that for work!

This will fix it, too.

http://www.perfectpedal.com/products...stment_kit.php

Hahaha! Hey, I suck. At least I'm honest. ;) Seriously, I will do that this year.

Putting together my seat, button boxes (DSP) and pedal assembly (CSP V3) right now.

:thumbup: The more the merrier. Bigger groups make it more fun for everybody.

I'm really looking for a decent SIM setup as the winter months are too excruciating to wait with no track time. That being said I'm willing to pay for a realistic setup because I hate sims that have poor realism. I'm planning on visiting Crimson simulation soon to get an idea of what is out there. Thanks for all the posts so far it's been a great education.

Jeff

Great post Peter; very informative for those looking to get started.

Another question to answer to help guide you in the right direction is asking what you want to get out of a setup. Many of the online aliens (uber fast record holders) have the cheapest/simplest equipment. For me, I don't race much online and could care less about that final tenth of a second. I like having people over and for them to be wowed by something they've never experienced before. So for me, I wanted full motion and something big and bold image wise.

When buying a rig, you don't need to conquer it all in one swoop. Keep in simple in the beginning with quality components. The sim racing community does a lot of gear swapping, so buy quality and you can always sell it and recoup a lot of your investment when its time to upgrade. I've sold a lot of my initial gear to fund my current setup and still have a few pieces left over (CSR wheel, Logitech wireless headset, Track IR).

Hah! TrackIR. I have one. Cool idea.

jlanka, to me there are only two things that affect the value I get out of any sim less than $50K.

Those are a) a realistic brake pedal feel, since that is the skill I (and that I ask others to) work on most and b) graphical detail and rendering speed, which is solely down to GPU and display technology.

Since iRacing (and most other sims) are self-scaling in detail settings (they run wizards to determine the speed of YOUR hardware and set it up for the best result from the results), it'll be as good as the hardware you have. So get that part down the best you can, GeForce 980 or better or equivalent AMD GPU. I run a GTX 1080 and it's just fine in both machines.

As far as the pedals go, the first GOOD set of pedals I got were recommended to me by Dale, Jr. and Justin Wilson (RIP). They were built by a mercurial genius (but terrible businessman) Todd Cannon, and they were one of the first strain-gauge assemblies made. A HUGE step towards realism. This was about ten years ago.

Then, the next set was from the Japanese company FREX, and had actual master cylinders and miniature calipers to mimic the proper feel, but they're too bulky.

The next system I used was what Frank has, and what I STILL think is a very, very good solution, Gary Gibson (IMSA Lights racer) Perfect Pedal, a hydraulic load cell DIY'd into a Logitech G25/27 pedal assembly. Still, one of the best for the money, especially with a Bodnar USB cable to increase the resolution.

Then, I bought a Club Sport V3 set from Thomas Jackermaier, which is what I use on one system now.

The best pedals are quite a bit more expensive and not worth it for the casual user, IMO. He has a number of offerings if you want to get crazy here: http://www.h-engineering.net

For me, the jury is out on the value of motion platforms. I have used everything from the $660,000 (platform only) Cruden Hexapod (used to have two across the street from my office at VIR) to the myriads of mid-priced offerings ($18K-$40K) but have found NO joy. Will try some of Chris' stuff sometime and will probably buy a D-Box setup eventually, but for me, motion(and it's in inherent latency) is a huge distraction...

Rift, Vive and other VR stuff is not quite there yet, but a great deal more immersive than some of the other display options short of triple (or five) projectors.

I think for most, the top of the line Sim Seats system would be more than they would ever use or get full benefit from.

The strength of my Accuforce wheel completely changed the feel on the rig from fun toy to serious gear. Can't go wrong using a real Momo wheel either.

I agree on the pedals though; my HPP hydraulics are a nice step up from what I was previously using...and man are they pretty!


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...2ddbe917bc.jpg

Off-season porn! :bowdown: :cheers:

But you're talking about $2000, JUST for the wheel and the two pedal base systems, $2800 with all the bells and whistles. :D

Info on the Accuforce Standard wheel here: http://simxperience.com/products/acc...ingsystem.aspx

Good video on the HPP pedals here:

If you have the ability to go to Crimson, go. Naid is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful. He has a variety of equipment - from crazy high end, to what I refer to as "mid-fi". Try it all out, several times, jump from one to the other to see what setup feels best to you. Tell him Jim from Chicago says hello!

I bought a set of Heusinkveld Engineering pedals from him (FANTASTIC!), and after being able to compare different wheel setups (OSW, Bodnar, and Fanatec) ultimately decided to upgrade from my Fanatec ClubSport V2 wheel to an OSW (aka "Open Sim Wheel") direct-drive wheel. Still waiting for it to ship....

Peter, I have an extreme gaming laptop which I'm hoping I can use for the sim:

This is my pup:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely going there soon. I've seen all the cool pedal and steering hardware out there and am drooling over a lot if it. I'd like to see it in action. Like ProCoach alluded to I'm not set on any sort of motion but I really want the hardware and the visuals to be as realistic as possible (in terms of action) and don't mind spending for it. I absolutely hate when you steer in one direction and the sim waffles you back and forth in an unrealistic fashion, same thing with flight sims.

That'll work just fine. :thumbsup:

Yeah not sure if I've said it in this thread or not but I know I've said it before - I remain unsold on motion platforms.

Now I have NOT tried the million-dollar setups, but I have tried most of the "consumer" grade (and by "consumer" I mean some close to $40k... so 'affluent' consumer might be more accurate) ones... CXC, simXperience, Force Dynamics, Dbox. They *all* have a very slight delay. It's slight *enough* that you can train yourself to get used to it... but it's there. SMACK the brake pedal suddenly and there's a hesitation before you get thrown into the belts. In a real car my foot wouldn't be bottomed out on the pedal before I hit the belts, as I'd get tossed AS the brakes grabbed. IMO it's just the nature of electronics hardware today - it takes time to process the resulting G-force, time to send the signal to the motion controller, time for the motion controller to decipher how much to move the piston, then time for the piston to actually move. Only a few milliseconds for each step but they do stack up enough to where you can tell something is just a little 'off'.

Motion is "fun", in a gimmick sort of way. Have it in your basement, throw your friends and relatives in it and watch them get tossed around. It does add a little bit more of a physical dimension to controlling the car, as it's more difficult to be super precise on the controls if you're physically getting jostled around a bit. But overall I remain a non-fan of motion if you're going for an actual training tool in a simulator. Some will disagree with me (Naid will too - he likes motion). Just how I see it.

Flight simulators - it's a little different, as things happen much more slowly. Cables stretch, flaps move, take a second to "bite" the air, etc. Plus pilots are generally much smoother/gentler on the airplane than a race driver. There's enough time for the electronics to respond. But for race cars, things are much more immediate.

One thing I *do* want to experiment with is SimVibe. You attach a couple bass shaker devices to the corners of your rig, and you get thuds/vibrations.

Got it! Now I know Brandon's secret.

Agreed, IMO.

From what I hear, D-Box may be in my future, but I remain skeptical.

I like SimVibe. I've got 2 bass kickers in chassis mode setup to mimic engine vibration by RPM and when I drive over rumble strips.

Saw this for the budget minded Rift (but not for Vive) buyers: http://www.pcworld.com/article/31559...ors_picks=true

Basically, $1100 for a PC AND a Rift, leaving room for a Fanatec V3 pedal set and basic wheel setup. Under $2K for something that would work well, for awhile.

My old G27 setup is messed up, seq. shifter either doesn't work at all, or works and double downshifts. I know it's the pots, just don't feel like dissasembling the damn thing to clean/replace them. Wheel and pedals are fine, is there another shifter setup out there that will work with the G27 wheel/pedals or should I just buy a new setup entirely.. and if so, what is out there under $500?

$35 from Logitech a few years ago.

http://support.logitech.com/parts(Spare Parts, section "Gaming").

Part number 993-000384

I bought a Fanatec SQ1.5 shifter and really like it. Nice feel to it once you stiffen the springs up (there's a built-in adjustment). $200.

https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/shifte...ter-sq-us.html

Need this to use with the G27 (and others): https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/sim-ra...dapter-us.html

I like the Derek Speare Designs sequential. With the serious spring, feels like a Cup car!

Thank you Peter, Jim, et al. I think I will order the Fanatec Shifter and adapter. I tried contacting Logitech for a replacement shifter but just got frustrated.. not worth my time for such an old setup. I do have a custom made aluminum shift knob that fits a G25/27 if anyone wants it. It's similar to the sequential knob on the Fanatec.. Only question is how does it mount on the desktop? I see no clamping apparatus on it?

Does anyone know if the perfect pedal will work with the newer G920 pedals?

Might want to ping them. They actually specify a difference between the G25 and G27 in the DIY kits.

That said, the GTEye springs are listed as the same for all three (G25/27/920) so it's worth checking.

Nixim has been around a long time, and there's buzz about the GTEye replacement springs. http://www.nixim.com/brake/

Glad I asked, though they are a little bit greedy asking $30 for that POS mount...

Agreed.

I think they just assume you have a rig already and will use the mount holes that are on the shifter to hard-mount it.

Tried submitting the order twice, get an "Parameter List Format Error"... and this screen.. I just can't win. Doesn't matter how I choose to pay, and if I click "OK" it sends me back to my address screen which has my phone number in it. No idea why it's there but it's a required parameter when putting the address in. I emailed Fanatec....

I've got the Derek Spears bent sequential shifter. I like it, its very mechanical, feels solid.

If I upgrade, I think I'd go with the MANU sequential as its a direct clone of the old GT3 Cup Car.

(not my photo)

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...deb8e145ab.jpg

Sweet!

Fanatec shifter/adapter/mount ordered. They never figured out the issue, I took the "&" out of my company's name and PayPal went through so I can only assume it caused an error in their address check scheme..

Good!

Be great if it works! I stopped sim racing because of the shifter pot issues in both the G25 wheel and shifter I have, hopefully now I can enjoy it again...

Why are you selling the ARCs? I'm sure you will find a buyer.

I'm just looking to try something different.

There's SO much good stuff out there, right now.

Well, since we're at it. Anyone have a custom wheel they want to show off?

I sold my F1 wheel as I never race open wheelers. I have an idea for a new custom wheel, but I have not taken action yet. May just get some paddles to add to my Momo Mod30.

I have a custom wheel from Sam Maxwell . Momo 27c with button plate and paddle shifters. I'll post a picture later.

I have a Sam Maxwell wheel in the process of being assembled now :) It's a race to see what gets here first - the wheel, or my Joe Sullivan OSW.

Which OSW did you go with Mige or Lenze? Joe is an awesome guy.

Peter, what's your recommendation? Add the DIY perfect pedal to an existing G27 pedal set, or buy the Clubsport V3 set? Both seem to be the same price (if you buy the Bodner cable).

If you're a four-way shock kind of guy, and like messing around with the adjustments, buy the V3 set. That's what I am coming to grips with now on a set I bought some time ago but are only now putting into service. Jury is still out. I don't have the damper (and I would NOT put the throttle damper on this set).

If not, you just want to get in and drive, buy the DIY Perfect Pedal, the Bodnar cable and take a little fluid out of it. I have been using this setup (and sold two or three dozen to other folks) for years, even with the modded G27, a Fanatec Club Sport Wheel Base and an ECCI wheel and have always been happy. I had ONE begin to leak a little, and Gary fixed it several years later, no charge.

To me, the brake pedal feel is everything, because that's the hardest skill execution IN THE SIM, IMO. I would like to try the HE pedals again (tried some early stuff a long time ago) and the HPP's, sometime.

Small Mige with the new SimuCUBE controller setup.

I sent him a deposit 6 weeks ago, he said it'd take 2-4 weeks. Poked him last week to see if I my wheel was gonna be done soon and all I got back was, "Yep!"

So... who knows. I'm not worried, he's got a good rep. I'm also not in a hurry... I'm behind on my cockpit project and don't really have anything good to mount the OSW to anyways. Just a little strange with the lack of communication.


Well if you're ever in the Chicago area you're welcome to give my HE's a try :) I spent a little time futzing with bumper and software config/calibration and they feel incredible once set up right.

Thanks Peter. In a real car, I love the tuning... but I jump in my "sim" maybe once a month (essentially a G27 on a wheelstandpro), and don't want to bother with adjustments and tweeking. I think i'll go with the perfect pedal. Just got on iracing after about a year (since I sold my SPB to Scott :to_order:)... took a while for all the updates. To my surprise, Nurburgring was now available. Holy cow... that track is nuts. New item now on my track bucket list.

Glad to help. You'll like it because it makes it "feel right." No more driving in your socks! :D

OK, I ordered this:

Obutto R3Volution rig with Triple Monitor Stand

CSL Elite Wheel Base

ClubSport steering wheel Porsche 918 RSR

ClubSport Pedals V3

ClubSport Pedals V3 Damper Kit

ClubSport Shifter

Shopping for a gaming computer and monitors. I have a call into Main Performance for the PC.

Is 144 hz the way to go on the monitors?

Was having force feedback problems, just updated my firmware and its all better. Lots of good info here. I have a PlaySeat Forza seat with a Fanatec GT2 wheel (works w PC, Playstation and Xbox) and V2 Clubsport pedals, and the Playseat mount for the shifter. The controls are awesome, the seat is a little flimsy, but very adjustable. Currently use a 50" tv which is mounted too high, but his thread has inspired me to create my own triple monitor set up. I'm thinking of sandwiching a metal plate between the wheel and the mounting shelf that the wheel bolts to, and buying a clamp on triple monitor stand that is meant to clamp to a desk. Anyone done this? Am i missing something? Would 24" monitors be a good size for this setup?

Thanks

Yes, 144 Hz refresh is the way to go on monitors.

I would also call Velocity Micro, myself.

Just to be clear - the HE pedals don't require "constant" tuning. They're just highly configurable for travel, stiffness, and deadzone. Generally once you set it, you leave it alone.

I messed with mine a bit. If anybody winds up with a set, I'm happy to share my configuration and settings to spare you from the "fiddle with it" phase. :) Pedal has some squish to it (so it feels "right" when under hard braking) but also has a small amount of dead space at the top, which nicely simulates the travel the pads make to the rotors.

Not a bad pile of hardware there. Should feel great when it's all hooked up. Main PC is good - knowledgeable guy, good support.

If you're going triples, then as I understand it, the higher the refresh rate, the better.

Just make sure that you've got the horsepower in the PC to be able to drive them. A 144Hz monitor is gonna want 144+FPS at all times, as far as I understand.

1080 GTX should do the trick. No need for Titan X.

Was talking about the V3's vs the PP. Prefer the PP to "set and forget."

72 fps frame rate would work well too then

I'd give VR a test run. The resolution is acceptable but terrible vs. triples and a few get motion sickness (especially with bad settings or in the first week or so). However, it's in 3D and you have head tracking so you may get a better sense of immersion. I prefer it overall.

Refresh rate has an effect on motion sickness. Quicker refresh rate = less latency = less disconnect.

My experience, especially over the last ten years of coaching people on simulators, parallels the military. A fair percentage of people have difficulty tolerating seeing things move, but not having their inner ear tell them they are moving. There are many ways to ameliorate this, and many go on to become comfortable after being uncomfortable. Triples are harder to get used to than single display. VR is somewhere in between. I do prefer VR, but I spent a lot of time getting is right. For most casual simmers, one good 27" or more (but not too much more) will do just fine.

I have triples at 120hz and that's a pretty sweet setup. I don't think I could ever go back to a single monitor and if I was starting over I might go straight to VR as 3 120hz monitors is pricey. I have the DK2 oculus and I tolerate the low resolution ok, but it's the ergonomics that get to me. My face gets pretty sore after 20 minutes. I wish someone would make sim helmet that we could recycle our old outdated helmets into VR systems. My other problem with VR is the 'getting the sh*t scared out of me factor' when my wife needs to get my attention. I would run VR full time if those issues weren't there.

LOL that is indeed a concern. I have that same problem.

Hmmm... ;) I have a DK2 and a Rift lying around...

VR is awesome when it does not make you sick. I put together a VR capable rig last summer with a top of the line PC with the i7 CPU, 16 GB of RAM and the 1080 GPU with the Vive VR headset. I only have middle of the road Fanatec clubsport V2 wheel and V3 pedals (with the damper), and as much as I would have liked to have had higher end wheels and pedals, I needed to control my costs of the sim somewhere and purposely choose to use middle of the road controllers versus the high end gear. However if I do an hardware upgrade soon, next to be replaced would be the use better pedals. My Fanatec V3s aren't bad. But they are also far from realistic.

Initially I could only use Project Cars in VR. But then in the 3rd quarter of 2016 iRacing began supporting the Vive headset. I did not suffer any motion sickness at all in Project Cars, but I did suffer some in iRacing. Nothing major. As long as I kept the car moving and on the track in iRacing, all went well. It was the sudden stops in iRacing that effected me. If I went off track and into a wall in iRacing, it was the sudden stop in VR that seemed to scramble my brain and triggered some minor motion sickness. Of course had I gone off track and hit a wall in the real world, the sudden stop might have done more to me than just trigger some motion sickness. haha

I need to get back into playing with my VR sim. Lately I have been doing other things with my spare time, like trying to teach myself Spanish. Hablas Espanol? Tal vez un poco? Ahora quiero unas cervasas, pero todavía estoy en el trabajo ... jaja.

Anyway VR racing is the bomb when you are not suffering from motion sickness. You actually feel like you are in the cars. I even saved some replays from some of my Project Cars races (a GT race as well as a Formula Renault race) and for people who are not the most talented with racing and/or new to sim racing, they can put on my VR headset replay the race and they get to experience the race almost the same as when I did the race. It's really funny with the GT race replay where I am driving a Porsche RUF car. You can stick your head out the window in the middle of the race looking around at the others cars just as a dog likes to stick their heads out of the windows of real world moving cars. It's a great way for people new to sim racing to experience VR without needing to worry about car control.

OK, I ordered:

ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150
Video Card: NVIDIA | GTX 1080 8GB
Storage Drive 1: SSD | Intel 530 Series 240GB
Storage Drive 2: HDD | Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB
Triple Screen Adapters: 2x MiniDP/DisplayPort to DVI Dual Link Adapter
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64bit
Keyboard: Microsoft K&M Combo
Headset: Logitech G35 Headset

And Three:

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/conten...l/UM.FG6AA.B01

Peter, if my wife asks, all of the above cost less than $1000 total. :bigbye:

Actually, with my move from GTB1 to SPB, I'm funding this entire project using the money I save by not using Pirellis for two race weekends. :p

Hahaha! David, haven't you asked me to say that before? :D

Your full complement of computer and gear will serve you very well for many years. Congrats!

That's friggin hilarious... "No need" describes 95% of what all these guys are buying!!!

Just like buying decisions for the cars... :D

Just in case this is new to anyone on here, while a few will have motion sickness with VR no matter what, the default iRacing settings will give most everyone motion sickness - you have to change the settings manually to fix this:

http://www.paradigmshiftracing.com/racing-basics/racing-sims-default-settings-can-cause-vr-sickness-how-to-fix-it

This made a huge difference to me.

Yes.

Before I did what your link directs, the military rate of 30-35% experiencing motion sickness was similar to the percentage of new folks on my static three screen sim experiencing some discomfort.

Three screens and VR accentuated this condition.

Afterwards? About 10-15%

Those of us raised on consoles and the original Sony Computer Entertainment's seminal Gran Turismo? No problem!

Would love to see the outcome.

I attempted this with an old helmet (as an ex-motorcycle racer I have almost a dozen wrecked helmets kicking around) when I was still using my DK1. I eventually gave up - had to hack away a LOT of the helmet to make it fit and even then I never got the thing to fit right.

DK2 might still be doable since it has the elastic band. CV1, the head strap is integrated into the unit so not really workable. :(

I am going to have to check this out later because I never did find the sweet spot for my iRacing VR configuration.

So, I made the mistake of opening the box to my new ClubSport Porsche 918 RSR steering wheel in front of my wife. I guess I had a goofy childlike smile on my face as I held the wheel in my hands.

My wife said, "You look like Ralphie opening up his Red Ryder BB gun on Christmas morning. Only, you're a lot fatter."

31 years of wedded bliss...so far. :banghead:

:thumbsup:

Pics???

Link? Is it available for a 991 GT3???

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...279adc21e2.jpgAll three.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3fc3117ace.jpg918
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3e223bd568.jpgM3 GT2 wheel

I tried to run iracing on my macbook that I use for school and to my surprise it runs it decently well on one screen. Getting 65 to 90 fps with all the car stuff at high detail. Just started with iracing and I'm addicted. I'll be slowly collecting parts to build a good PC and get some VR goggles.

Finished my budget PVC rig as well. Most of the materials bought with lowes gift cards from the inlaws for christmas. Pretty happy with it. Still need to paint it black and redo some cuts when I get a better saw. Did I mention my wife loves me. Haha.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psh446mc77.jpg

Holy crap this Fanatec shifter is HUGE!! Wish I saw a picture of it in scale, mounting it on the desktop along side of my G25 (modded with a full size race wheel) the knob is the same height as the top of the wheel! May have to make some sort of platform up for it, not sure this is going to work.. :o

I'll have new videos and in depth feature details of the GT3 simulator in a week or so. Tuning and testing is going well.

Also, looking for a fiberglass mold maker.

New video of some work in progress testing of the RealGT. Added a few new elements since the first video. Its coming along nicely. Sorry for the Sound, my gopro is fubar.

I just got my HPP pedals after years of modding Fanatec pedals to try and get them to do what I wanted. I really can't recommend them enough, although personally I found the bumpers provided too stiff of a pedal even with the softest bumpers. After replacing one of the orange bumpers with a few softer grommets, the brake feel is great and offers more control than anything else I've experienced in a simulator. Definitely worth the cost for more advanced users trying to mimic a real car feel.

I just did the same thing. Swapped one orange bumper with 4 rubber grommets from Home Depot. Brake pedal feels very realistic now, extremely happy.

:corn:

Actually had the best race of my life on Iracing last night - better than any real one thus far at least

We went door to door for 5 laps and made multiple passes and re passes

Now I'm hooked and need a mounting rig - any new learnings there or same as from 2015 recs?

1k or so budget for the mounting rig

I use three monitors

Same.

Just to renew an old thread, but if you are thinking of getting into the sim world this is a great time to do it. I have seen I7-7700K's w/ 16-32 gigs of DDR, GTX 1070 or1080's's 256GB SSD's, 1 TB HD's for Under 1K... Just check your local Best Buy! With the i9 showing up the 7's are dropping already. I also just upgraded my T500 RS to the Fanatec C3 inverted and the Thrustmaster TS-PC for under 1k. That is a pretty top end computer with mid-high end controls that will last for quite some time for under 2K comfortably.

BTW, how do you get into the Rennlist iRacing league?? :)

Bought the hueskindveld pedals and the 2.5 base

5/10s faster almost instantly. Hunting the aliens now

That brake pedal feel... Awesome!

My set up,

- SIM LAB RIG GT1
– DD drive small smige
- HE ULTIMATES
- triple screens and VR
- blazing fast PC

Super realistic

This is my setup:
Thrsutmaster TS PC RACER WHEEL/T3PA Pro Pedals

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...cb7a407b36.jpg

Yeah I *love* my Heusinkvelds! Got the bumpers set up just right... super realistic feel, so much easier to be consistent on the brakes!

Very nice! Very, very similar to my setup. HE Pro's vs. Ultimates here, and the Sim Lab P1 cockpit. Looking at the GT1 on their website... honestly should have gone that route, I don't remember why I didn't. The wheel mount looks much better... the P1 has this stupid hinged mount on the uprights for the wheel plate. They move. :( Annoying in VR when suddenly you feel the damned wheel move...

Nice setup there too!

Where are you guys on Weds nights?!? Need more folks to join in!

Omni - can you share what rubber stack you have in your brake pedal? I have what it came with and would prefer the first bit of travel to require less force

I have HPP PRX-SE pedals, but I was able to achieve the exact feeling you are depicting by adding some rubber grommets to the initial take up. They are $1/ea at Home Depot.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...573df2ebbc.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...690c1f47ec.jpg

Also - looks like from the HE thread here: http://members.iracing.com/jforum/po....page#10138014

I've got it cal'd to about a max of 3000? I seem to remember the "min" was ~400? Just so I've got a little bit of deadzone. I'll have to double-check these numbers later, things might've changed (calibration-wise) since that post. But the bumper config is exactly as pictured.

My new wheel is finished and matches my rig's Martini livery nicely (sorry about the massive size).

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8971d3bf34.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d5b6f13e8d.jpg

The paddle shifters bring a better mind muscle connection to the newly released GT4 Clubsport in RaceRoom. You can really feel the car begin to pivot as weight transfers via the Rear Traction Loss on the rig. Outstanding stuff!

I built my own rig out of 80/20 because I wanted to mimic the pedal/wheel/dash positions of my Cup Car and wasn't sure if the adaptability of some of the rig kits was going to allow that.
So, taking measurements, angles etc from the Cup Car everything is exactly where it should be. It took me about 3 months to fully build it, and I'm still not finished:

1) My "cable management" is not complete.
2) I am going to invert the pedals when I get the time (the center point of each pedal is still exactly as positioned in a Cup).
3) I have a Cup dash and center console I am going to overlay on the rig itself - use the center cup panel as a button box.

This is my first dip into sim racing and what really upped the experience (immersion they call it) was adding tactile transducers to the aluminum rig and using software called SimVibe to run them. While not a motion rig (yet), the tuning ability with the right software to drive the transducers is incredible. The software extracts the data from iRacing or AC etc and allows you to "tune" those effects. Hitting curbs, engine vibration, gear changes etc. For example if you hit a curb with the RF tire, you ONLY "feel" that on the right front of your rig.

Every time I sit in the rig I am amazed at the experience. I have 4 transducers, one at each corner of the rig.

I also use Oculus once in a while - wow! (Your brain and inner ear may not like this...a fellow racer got sick immediately).

Lots still left to do here but its a good start.

As for iRacing itself..I have only been on a few weeks, but I find it very helpful in many ways, especially in terms of getting back in the saddle after some time off. It comes extremely close to the real thing in terms of intensity when you have a bunch of cars around you - and even more so when you have all of the tactile senses being fed as I explained above.

I didn't read thru this whole thread so if someone already mentioned the transducers I apologize.

There are a lot of hosted Daytona 24 practice sessions right now and Ive been joining those most every night (F 488) this week JUST for proximity/intensity...very fun.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...6896702c6f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e86ce1e218.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...835efde99a.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...4d5257fbbe.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a90365368b.jpg

Nice! Started with a Sim-Lab base?

Does the SimVibe stuff translate well? I've read some folks say that on the super-rigid setups, it's so stiff you can't tell where the "thump" came from. I want to do SimVibe as my next rig upgrade.

And I did the same thing re: measurements for my Cayman. I went so far as to take a 3D scan of the cockpit, load it into SketchUp, then take the measurements that way so I could be accurate. I've got 3D scans of a few different cars so I can configure it differently if I ever want to.

Yeah I struggle with the Cup baseline too. I was curious to know if you could load up a "real" setup on it. In fact a buddy of mine who does a lot of Cup setups owes me a callback lol....

Would you mind sharing the setup you're *trying* to get to, from your real car?

I've had good luck with the setups from Virtual Racing School. They have an easy-to-understand telemetry system + some good self-coaching stuff in there that I am getting good at using. https://virtualracingschool.appspot.com/#/Home

The Sim Lab rig definitely influenced my build, but I did not order from them because of several reviews I read about missing parts, long delivery times, etc. I got everything I needed from www.8020.net .

It is interesting you read some negatives about SimVibe and rigid rigs...I find it spectacular. I can definitely feel where the "bump" came from. I have to say I didn't know what I was getting into when I put this thing together...it takes a lot of tweaking with the Software (and the amps for the transducers - I am using 2 iNuke DSP1000 amps) to get things "right".

Initially, I just plugged everything in and was still amazed at the "feel"...but after reading this and that advice online from various other forums, and adjusting all the settings in SimVibe and DSPs, it went to a whole new level. There is a distinct noise/frequency a Cup car gearbox makes and I was able to replicate that almost exactly. Same with the gear changes. With the engine vibrations and harmonic load noises all set just right, I literally feel like I am sitting in my Cup. I'd like to add motion some day but for now, as a newbie at this, I'm satisfied.

And yes, having the pedals, wheel etc in exactly the right place was very important to me - I wish I had your laser scanner because my method with scale cardboard and 5000 trips back and forth to the garage was quite tedious!

I will send the setup to you via PM later this evening.

FLA997 - I'm curious if you've tried RaceRoom's version of the Cup Car. It just came out. The game is free to download via Steam and there are a few free cars and tracks (Portimao Algarve is free!). A neat thing about RaceRoom is you are allowed to test drive any car on a fictitious track. There is a lot of transmission noise and another odd sound on braking - apparently they got actual recordings from Cup Cars for their sounds, so I'd be interested to know your thoughts. Obviously you'd need to get your settings dialed in.

Cool. I thought I saw some of the Sim-Lab parts in there (pedal mount brackets, upright mounts). I've got a Sim-Lab setup myself, which I've been somewhat happy with. I've already made some tweaks, have more in mind, and likely in the end will be ditching all (save for the upright mounts) the custom Sim-Lab pieces. Overall they look slick but I've been disappointed in the actual usefulness.

Well, not so much "negative" just that it seems as we get to stiffer and stiffer rigs, they start to become less effective. The earlier rigs, sloppy setups, etc. really lets the vibrations transmit throughout the rig. The 8020 stuff is so stiff, supposedly it's hard to tell "right front corner thump" vs "thump".

I haven't experienced it though so I can only share what I've read. I'm glad to hear it works well for you... I will definitely be picking your brain in the future.

That's awesome. I was so disappointed when I'd read that the stuff didn't work well with 8020. Glad to hear there is hope. Once I get through several other projects, SimVibe is on my list. I'll likely be poking you for your configs :)

Sweet. Sometimes all it takes is a minor tire pressure bump or something to get it back in spec.

Very cool set up!

What setup. What monitors are you using?

I just ran 991 Cup on this motion setup at VR Motion Labs in SE MA. First time using VR googles and it went pretty well.

https://www.vrmotionlabs.com/single-post/2017/01/06/Prototype-2-A-high-performance-3DOF-VR-Racing-Motion-Simulator

.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c61cc6017a.jpg

Finally started taking sim driving a bit more serious. I don't want to spend a lot of coin on upgrades right now, but the brake pedal of the G29 is driving me nuts. I am going to keep the G29 wheel for now. So... upgrade to Perfect Pedal, or Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals?

I haven't actually, but I will take a look.

I am using the SAMSUNG C27CHG70 curved monitors....but...I've been using the VR headset more and more because even after calculating the proper field of view and getting all 3 monitors set just right, it still doesn't come close to the "immersion" of the VR headset. With monitors you are playing a game. With VR you are "in the car" - literally, and everything is the proper scale. Its much easier (for me) to judge distance and closing speeds in VR than the triple setup, and my lap times are always better in VR by 0.5-0.8 sec. So...now I feel like I shouldn't have gone all out on high end monitors ($1700 in monitors vs. $400 VR). The only drawback to VR is that when you come from great monitors with crystal clear resolution, you will notice the VR isn't as good. There is a "screen door" effect on the graphics in the headset that will hopefully improve as technology marches on. You can play with the SuperSampling settings in the VR toolbox for some improvement, but it wont be near a decent monitor. In the end, I think the benefits of VR outweigh the resolution deficit when you compare it to an HD monitor.

I would highly recommend the Heusinkveld Ultimates, but they are not cheap. They absolutely feel real and can be adjusted.

The SimVibe stuff is definitely a "process" - and much of it is WAY over my head.

Lot of guys have both and have been happy. I understand they're comparable.

Forced to choose between those two options: I would go with the Clubsports merely so I don't have to disassemble anything. Just plug them in and go.

My advice though would be to buy a set of Heusinkveld Engineering pedals from the start. A lot of people buy the interim stuff and then wind up upgrading later. I have the HE "Pro" pedals and they're fantastic. I compared them back to back with the Ultimates and while the Ultimates ARE nicer.... personally I couldn't justify the diminishing returns of the hydraulics.

The recent revival of this thread is timely for me, since I've decided to take the plunge and get a sim setup. Budget is roughly $10K. I prefer not to fiddle with gadgets, so I'm looking for an integrated system, rather than trying to assemble components myself. Goal is to be able to get as close as I can to the experience of driving on real tracks, from the convenience of my home, in a variety of cars at a variety of tracks (would love to be able to drive many of "famous" tracks around the world, that I likely won't get to in real life). Ability to race is highly preferred, but not absolutely mandatory.

I read through the thread quickly, and it seems like Sim Seat may still be good, but VR may be the future - can VR be used with Sim Seat? Also seems like motion may not be realistic enough except in high-end rigs? I'm not at all prone to motion sickness on track in either seat, even at notorious tracks like Shenandoah, but have never tried a sim and am not a gamer, so I don't know how prone I'd be to motion sickness with a sim.

Recommendations would be much appreciated!

Better to buy a really good static sim for this budget than even a build your own motion rig.

VR can be integrated into just about any commercially available sim.

Sim Seat is integrated, vetted and offers support. And you could come in under your budget.

You should head down to Richmond and take a test drive...

Sounds good, trip to Richmond probably makes sense. Can you recommend a software platform for the car and track sims? I'm an absolute novice to sim world, so primarily in the "dumb questions" category.

Edit: Just saw that all of the Sim Seats packages are labelled iracing packages. I guess that means they have to be used with iracing?

All you need is iracing sign up

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some reading to learn more about these options.

Realism of the experience is definitely an important factor for me, since I want my sim learning to translate to driving on real tracks. I'm a bit leery about becoming counterproductively accustomed to a motion system which simulates motion unrealistically due to time lag, lack of sustained g-forces, etc., so maybe motion is out for me for that reason alone.

I think there's good suggestions here for equipment.

I think that, in my opinon, if you're looking for pre-assembled, turn-key, with that equipment - then staying under a $10k limit is going to be tough. Might be doable if there's a seller out there with small margins for a hobby/side-gig. Most guys factor in long-term support costs.... if your rig works great for 5 months, then a Windows Update comes out and breaks it, or you let your kids or nephews load up Duke Nukem on it and THAT breaks it, you'll likely be looking for the builder to help you with it. Takes time.

A lot of the pre-built turn-key setups I've seen for that price point generally include Logitech wheels, etc. Cheap stuff for what you're paying. I looked into starting a side thing myself building rigs... my vision was good/high end legit "trainer level" equipment for "attainable" pricing - I wanted to keep usable rigs down under $10k and in the end it barely left anything for my time to put it all together.

Not sure where you're located - I assume close to ProCoach - but I would definitely recommend a "test drive" if you have the ability to do so.

Really these aren't SUPER complicated to build if you have a little patience and willingness to experiment. Off-the-shelf PC from Dell or MicroCenter (they have some good deals on pre-built machines), help from the community to assemble the components and an afternoon, and you'll be up and running. DIY and you can definitely be under $10k.

If you are close to Indy there is a company called Race Craft 1 http://www.racecraft1.com/
Kelly Jones will build you a system I'm sure within your budget. I have seen where he has traveled to put the systems together, but that will add to the bill.
He is also a lead instructor with 10/10ths and is very much into making it as realistic as possible. I did a 3 hour class with his sim, and my wife did a 12 hour. Learned quite a bit.
I run a Accurforce wheel with HPP pedals and Rseat rig. Three 50" monitors and a butt kicker. I do mostly Iracing, it's a great wintertime activity.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm in Maryland, so not too far from Richmond, VA.

The budget of $10K is somewhat flexible. I've been hoping it's enough to get something pretty good, but I didn't want to spend too much on a first sim system, since I don't know how much I'll wind up using it.

For those who have a lot of experience with both sim and real tracks, I'm curious: how realistic do you find sims in the $5-15K price range to be? How well does does sim experience translate to the track, and in what ways (if any) is inaccuracy of the sim detrimental to track driving? Is lack of realistic G-forces and other aspects of motion a major shortcoming? How much do you enjoy using a sim vs going to the track?

I've been a bit dismissive about sim in the past, instead preferring "the real thing," but with all the rave reviews for VR and continuing big increases in computer power, my interest in sim is piqued. The notion of being able to have a decent percentage of the experience of driving the Nurburgring, as often as I want, without having to leave home, is enticing.

I was the same way for a long time, but if you race I find it a fairly valuable tool to stay "sharp" in terms of situational awareness/cars around you at speed, etc. It can get quite intense, believe it or not. I was pleasantly surprised.

Also a really good way to get acclimated to a new track.

I think you will be quite surprised as to how authentic it feels in a sim...especially the rendering of the tracks. G forces however are all simulated. Best motion rigs I have tried are nowhere near like a real race car. I have driven my cup car and a motion rig back to back at a well known race track and come back way disappointed.
However, with a "static system" equipped with DD wheel, high-end brake pedals, triples or VR and simVibe, you get pretty close to real world feel in terms of feedback. I think the work on sims help on track. It also helps during dry spells between races and the long winter break!!

In the Sim world, in iRacing, the fastest kids (called "aliens") are sometimes faster than professional drivers on the sim. I think they do things we would not try in a real race car. Its fun to see all that though. If you do Sim racing on line, be prepared to get cussed out by 15 year-olds from Latvia who will think you are a moron and tell you that you don't know to how drive!!!

If this is true, the iRacing laser scanned tracks are what you want. I've often hosted private online sessions to do detailed "track walks" using iRacing, and have never been disappointed.

Be aware that the GPU (graphics processing unit) is the most important single component for rendering detail in the video recreation of a track. iRacing is "auto-scaling" which means the more powerful a card you have, the more detail it will draw.

While MSR Racer has good recommendations, the reason Sim Seats may be worthwhile is because they're CLOSE, the systems are turn-key and the support is there. When you do your own assembly, it's a pain in the ass to get everything working just right.

With any responsible builder, you can integrate up-market components like the HE pedals (or the HPP's, which are of even better construction) and DD wheels, but these are luxuries, not neccessities. Do the test drive!

I have several Cup car drivers who I coach that have Sim Seats rigs and while basic, they do the job just fine. Mark Lutes does a fine job down in the Atlanta area, as well.

With substantial time on a wide variety of motion rigs up to and including a $650K Cruden Hexapod, there's a reason why I still have a static sim for my own personal use. Even after twenty-one years of sim driving and coaching.

All of the above.

If you look at it as a tool to learn "how to drive" - its a bad idea. Granted the cars do handle authentically but without the "fear" or consequence.... I think you're more willing to TRY things in sim. Heard many bad stories from fellow instructors who have newbie students claim "Well it worked in the simulator!"

If you look at as a tool to learn "how to race" - I think it's excellent. Racecraft, mental training, etc. it's perfect. Especially iRacing where all the other cars are real people (vs. AI) and (usually) nobody wants to ruin someone else's night.

The realism coming from the software will only take you so far. Equipment plays a factor too.

I'm actually trying to work on a blog/essay/PCA regional article about this - to nutshell it: I look at it like hi-fi audio gear. If the goal is to just "listen to music" then the free earbuds that came with your cellphone and some 128k MP3's will do the job. If your goal is to *feel like you're there in the room with the musicians* then it's going to take better software and audio gear.

If you want to just "play around" then go buy a wheel/pedal combo at Best Buy, a Playstation, and a copy of Gran Turismo. It'll look pretty (the PS4 and XBOX graphics are pretty amazing these days) and you'll have some fun.

If you want to actually simulate racing, and feel like you're there.... then you need better equipment. Buying just the software will only do so much - just like investing in a set of 96k lossless audio tracks really won't sound any better if you're playing them through your iPhone's built-in speaker.

And like audio gear - it's certainly diminishing returns for the dollar - but there is an initial big step up. Going from a $200 steering wheel to a $2000 steering wheel is HUGE. Going from a $2000 steering wheel to a $5000 steering wheel is only marginally better. Just like going from your earbuds to something from even, say, Bose or Klipsch (ugh....) is going to be a big step up. Moving from a nice mid-fi pair of $5,000 DynAudio speakers into a $60,000 pair of B&W's... better, but not the same quantum leap relative to the dollars spent.

Or come racing with us who are all mature Rennlist guys and we toss out anyone who acts like a prick!

I think it really helps a lot with getting you up to speed much faster using a sim. The only course I drive in real life and on my sim is Mid Ohio. I drove hundreds of laps around that course before I ever went there and I was up to speed within 4 or 5 laps. Sure you do miss a lot of the g forces and the biggest thing is no fear. So you will go off course much more just because you can hit re-set.
You also will be temped to run a better car then you really have like a Porsche Cup car. If you are trying to get ready for a course it's best to stay with a car that is similar to what you really have. I can do Mid Ohio 10 seconds faster in a cup car then a street car. I don't even drive Indy or F1 cars because the grip is just crazy good.
Iracing does have a interesting way of progressing you. You start out as a rookie, then D, C, B and A. The way you advance in a race is based on your SA Safety Rating. Every time you go off course hit a wall or another car you get a incident. Most races will only allow you 12 or so and then you get tossed out. So say you get 1st with 6 incidents, and the guy who get 2nd with zero incidents he will advance his SR more then yours. This really encourages clean smooth racing.
Also NACAR is a lot of fun. It is so realistic I could almost predict the finish of the Daytona 500 Sunday, With one lap to go at Daytona its always better to be in 2nd or 3rd on the last lap. You will get such a good aero push going you can almost always run down the leader.
Racing a sim is also very exhausting, at least for my 57yo body. The sim is in my basement which is very cool. In a matter of minutes I'm sweating. If your on a bumpy course like Kentucky
Speedway you will get tired of fighting the wheel over the bumps. The Accuforce and most of the other wheels will let you turn down the force feedback if you want.

Hahaha...yep! I still shake my head when someone (an Alien) brakes at the 2 marker going into T7 at Sebring and actually hits the apex (911 Cup). You will definitely see some things that are just NOT possible in a real car....but not often.

For me this was a huge factor. I had to be in the same seat as the real car. I had to have the same wheel, the pedals had to feel like the Cup and be absolutely correctly positioned. You guys will probably think I'm nuts but I'm adding belts to my rig as well...

Sebring: They just need to "update" T1 pit wall and T17 exit (the grass)... I routinely get chastised for not using the present iRacing config where the T1 pit wall is shifted to the right and not using that track real estate. I simply ignore it as if the wall continued with no shift to keep it as real as possible (for me). I've heard some other tracks need updating as well.

The analogy to audio equipment was a good one. I went from having fun on a Xbox and plastic wheel to a full blown motion rig with high end gear. Slippery slope indeed, but worth every penny. While I'm a fan of 'buy once cry once', the sim community is alive with buy/sell threads, so you can always parlay your old gear for the next upgrade. My Accuforce wheel and HPP pedals transformed my interaction with the sim, and my previous gear helped cover their cost.

If you are serious about race prep, iRacing league races is a good choice (even though I personally don't care for it), as all tracks are laser scanned and each driver is in a class due to their safety rating. It does have a subscription fee and you pay for each car/track a la carte.

I think I said it earlier, but I still stand by the fact that a properly setup motion rig turns your experience from a mere game to an alive experience. By this I mean I felt my actions had consequences - I was nervous and sweating the first time I tried a motion rig. I started a session the other day and the motion was temporarily/accidentally paused and my equilibrium was immediately 'off' as I began braking for T1 and I was not pitched forward. To continue the audio analogy, a poorly tuned motion rig will be as disappointing as a pair of Martin Logan's backed against a wall, pointing away from the listener.

Barry from Sim Racing Garage on Youtube does a good job of breaking down gear to the little engineer inside all of us. Gives you an appreciation for the build quality and the nuance certain types of gear provide. I always like seeing gear in action to determine if the value they offer is worth the asking price. A lot of the gear discussed in this thread (HE, HPP, 80/20, Accuforce, OSW, seat mover, DBOX, etc) has been throughly broken down in Barry's videos if you search his channel.

I'm relatively new to using iRacing other than to learn new tracks, so take my comments for being worth what you paid for them. I've talked with two MX-5 Cup drivers who are pretty successful, and both have pointed me towards iRacing to help improve my driving in general, not just on specific tracks. One of them is a multi-time SM national champion who I have used as a coach. The other is a friend who went from running with me in mid-pack SM to being a contender in MX-5 Cup. He improved dramatically over the course of one year. When I asked him how he improved so much, he credited sim time. His comment was that by removing g-forces from the equation, you are forced to learn to drive with your eye and ears, and feedback to your feet and hands. He was particularly focused on the eyes part (probably due to being an optometrist). Basically if you can be quick without the g-force input, you can be even better with it when you go to the real world. Makes some sense to me, but then like I said in my first comment, I'm still learning.

I like driving the Cup car in iRacing. I find it too difficult to jump back and forth from the Cup car to even a GT3 car and be competitive. So spend most of my time with the Cup car. As someone posted above, if you live in the north, iRacing is a fun acticty in the winter months!

Based on the comments - am going to install SimVibe. Will run chassis with BK LFE minis - so do you have any recommendation for a 4 channel amp?

Thanks!

We run on Wednesday nights at 6:15 mountain time for 2 hours. Because we're a rennlist group, we always run Porsche variants. Before the official cup car came out, we ran the GT3 version of the RUF. Now it's 991 cup. Generally we do North American tracks that rennlist members are likely to actually drive and race at. I have to admit that I've missed a lot of races this year and I need to get back into it. Check the sticky thread to see what's going on in any given week. All you need to do is PM your iracing name to me or OmniJim and we can add you to the list of drivers, then you just show up whenever you can.

When does the fire suppression system go in? Safety first!

To the point made above by a couple people, I'm really appreciating how the sim forces the brain to use ocular inputs. I don't know whether the book "Perfect Control" form the "Science of Speed Series" is well received by the crowd here (is it?), but that's where I first was exposed to the idea that vision was the better tool for determining yaw and speed than kinesthetics. I'd assumed that the butt-dyno was doing all that work, but the assertion was that ocular input (especially when trained) is far more precise and really the best tool for understanding where car is really heading and whether in under- or over-steer.

So twist my arm, I had to get a rig :D The funny thing is that when i think back on a session, like the iracing race last night with COM SCC at LRP, I *remember* the gforces and compression from the turn-in on the downhill. So clearly something is getting wired up in my brain. It will be interesting to see what it's like to get back out on the same tracks.

To echo what Peter said (not that it's needed). The few times that I have spun out from oversteer on real tracks: I now understand that there was *no way* I would have saved those. From the sim I learned I was (a) looking where the car was going, not where I wanted it to go, and (b) my corrections were too slow and about half of what they needed to be. It was cool to repeatedly get into the same situations in iRacing, with the same outcomes, and it has been way cooler to start to develop the ability to change those outcomes!

In 5 years of HPDE I've gotten to learn how to scoot around the track with increasing speed and efficiency, but feel that the development of skills to handle what is on the other side of control have been lacking and are certainly not encouraged. So safety has been increasingly bothering me, and my training in the sport has felt out of balance. To add to this I had a close call last year when I optimistically read an ambiguous point-by. This was in a black/advance DE run group, but DE just doesn't let anyone really practice situational awareness in a meaningful way. It was about as close a call as one can imagine and it was on me and gave me something else to worry about. I got the simulator (with VR) to work on both ocular and situational skills, but I wasn't sure what to expect. If you can't tell, I'm shocked by how effective it is as a training tool. Then there's the virtual skid pad, but I'm already rambling.

THIS is COOL! So glad to hear this. The plasticity of the mind is incredible and you are REALLY using your sim time WELL! Congrats!

The majority of motion rigs fall into two categories: 'seat movers' and DBOX. I tried both before buying my rig - CXC's $50k 'seat mover' setup at a Porsche event and I also tried a Human Racing chassis on a 4 actuator DBox setup.

'Seat movers' create immersion by manipulate your inner ear/balance to create a sense of motion via the principles of kinesthesia and proprioception. The concept is that since no (realistic) simulator can provide the full G-Forces the way an actual vehicle can, you must trick the brain into perceiving these effects thus forcing the body to emphasize muscle pressures. The key is not to move the wheel and pedals, and only the occupant (thus the term 'seat mover'). For example, under braking, the same forces are essentially applied to the muscles in my wrists and forearms as would be applied in an actual vehicle, and as a byproduct I tighten and brace my core. Seat movers argue that simulators that attempt to move the entire cockpit/wheel/pedals (i.e. DBOX) cannot create these pressures to manipulate the sense of balance. To me, I think Rear Traction Loss is amazing. When I employ too much throttle, whether off camber, tires too greasy, or I haven't unwound my steering inputs enough, I feel it in my ass before I notice it on screen and I can correct it. I know others are commenting above on not wanting to have this feeling on purpose so you can focus on just visual inputs, but I can't speak to that. I'm not race training, but I'm sure having a ton of immersive fun while building my skills along the way!

Here is a video of someone with a SimXperience seat mover:

The counter argument for DBOX is that in a real car you don't move independent of the seat/pedals. I think this is missing the point as noted above. DBOX has a neat feeling of being hung by an actual suspension with actuators at all 4 corners. I like how quiet and compact the actuators/rig can be, especially considering they can also take care of the vibrations of SimVibe from within the actuators. I think you get a better sense of elevation with DBOX, and it can feel like a very tight 'ride' in a fun way. I reference earlier that Barry from Sim Racing Garage had the same rig as I, but he just replaced it with a DBOX setup just to switch things up. He has not had this setup long, so he's still formulating his opinions, but he keeps getting asked about missing rear traction loss. So far, he says that RTL was his favorite input, but somehow the DBOX is able to still convey the sense of the rear braking loose. He's not entirely sure how, but this is his initial impression so far.

Here is Barry on a DBOX setup:

Cost wise, you can buy (the most popular seat mover) the SimXperience rig in stages; here is what I have (costing around $5500ish). DBOX gets expensive, for 4 actuators you can pay 2-4 times that much for just the actuators.

I think its best if you can try them out for yourself. Most setups at expos and such are turned way up for wow factor, which takes away from the immersion and turns it into more of a carnival ride. I have my effects turned way down as you don't need much to trick the brain. For me personally, I preferred the 'seat mover' as it causes me to brace and tighten in small ways. In the future, I think a neat 80/20 rig with DBOX would make a cool VR setup. Another cool company with different setups to look at is SimCraft. They travel to many races throughout the season as they have sponsored many drivers (Jordan Taylor among others). SimCraft seems very popular with race teams and their setups can get in the $30k range - I'd love to try one of these as they employ many different DOF, seemingly combining the effects of DBOX and a seat mover.

Here is a video of one of the SimCraft setups:

Great, very informative post! Thank you, switchface!

If and when I decide to adopt motion for my personal simulators, I will go with D-Box.

I want a D-Box setup so badly.

For anyone that is interested, RaceRoom is having a FREE weekend on Steam. All content will be 100% free to try, so if anyone would like to try a different sim than the one they are used to, now is a great time.

The GT3 collection is vast and each is quite different, but my favorite in the game are the DTM '92 cars.

Thoughts on Fanatec ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5 vs SimXperience AccuForce Pro V2 (DD)

Not much difference in price with a wheel.

About to pull the trigger

Yep, that's the key, "with the wheel."

While I think there are some great pros to the DD setup (and am working on a new sim with the Simucube 2 Pro), I've been using the last three releases of the belt drive Fanatec for a good long while on the main rig.

I LOVE the Fanatec wheels, just bought a GT3 Cup wheel with all accessories, had the 918 and sold it and use the BMW GT2 regularly. I think, for the money, the Fanatec products are a better value.

The immersiveness of the sim is not hurt by picking the CSW 2.5 over the V2, IMO.

The Accuforce is a direct drive wheel that competes with Fanatec's DD1 and DD2 direct drive wheels. A Clubsport (have had two of their wheels) is a great belt driven wheel. It is a very nice wheel but direct drive wheels give better feedback. They had better given their higher costs.

As to a DD1 or DD2 vs an Accuforce it is hard to determine. I got my Accuforce some time ago before the Fanatec wheels were out. The Fanatec's are more expensive but have stronger maximum force feedback. I am very happy with my wheel but likely would have purchased a DD2 Fanatec if they were out sooner. Also some other direct drive wheels out there.

Good luck

Wrote this before I saw Peter's comments. As always he is spot on.

More expensive pedals are a great upgrade as they feel more like our real cars. Fanatec's are nice but if you want to spend more that is where to invest your money..

Direct drive is superior in every way. Accuforce will be more immersive and provide better feedback then a belt driven wheel.

I’m not a fan of the Accuforce, but that dates back. I am a fan of a good belt drive wheel like the CSW 2.5, which is much better than the original CSW. The Fanatec DD1 and 2 are ok, but I love the Simucube 2 Pro. I’m driving on a G27 at home, and other than the gear noise, it’s fine.

It’s hilarious, I see people debating the relative merits of DD versus a good belt driven wheel base, an ultrawide versus triple 144 Hz monitors versus Rift or HP Pro, incremental differences within the same GPU family, all in sims that will be lucky to see 25 hours on them before the world gets back to normal. It’s JUST LIKE CAR MODS! :D

Like data acquisition systems that people load up on sensors they never write maths to use, beyond a certain point, the incremental performance gain is harder and harder for a casual sim user to see and feel a benefit, much less one that results in a tangible performance improvement.

Just my experience over the last twenty-two years of sim racing on my own and helping others.

Certainly just like car mods! Not buying new tires right now so looking to upgrade the sim even thought it is another State right now. Wouldn't want to save the budget. I only use it in the winter, as you point out will happen for many of us, and ignore it once I can drive for real. Great for learning a new track.

Love that Villeneuve was competitive using a controller! As you have written many times it is the driver not the equipment.

To clarify, are you saying you prefer the CSW 2.5 to the DD1/2, or just that the difference to the DD1/2 is not as significant as you would expect given the price difference?

Also, it would be great to get more "color" on what you find preferable with the Simucube vs DD1/2. I've seen several people say that they prefer the Simucube, but haven't seen a ton of info about what specifically makes it better.

I would guess that the performance differences between DD1/2 and Simucube is probably more dictated by firmware than the hardware itself (both are powerful direct drive motors), so I wonder if Fanatec DD1/2 will improve over time with firmware updates.

on another twitter post, his "cooling system" is a bowl of ice with a desk fan LOL


#1 Oval racer on iRacing... fast on track in real life too

I love it!

Yes, to your first question.

Hard to say, will write more after I spend a few dozen more hours on the Simucube 2. Sure like the packaging better.

The big issue with all of these is that, just like a high end data system, most people have to spend MUCH MORE TIME learning and configuring and tweaking it to get it where they like it and can drive for hours at a time. Plus, with all of the configuration options come more questions, instead of answers. Stock, they all come too high in force and feedback, IMO.

The cheap stuff like the Logitech or medium stuff like the CSW 2.5, out of the box they're both close enough so that people can get a good feel, get going for weeks/months (sometimes never feel the need to upgrade) and do well WITHOUT dicking around with ALL of the myriad of settings in the DD/Accuforce V2 and Simucube 2 Pro provide. Fanatec has always been a little behind the curve in introducing hardware before the firmware is even mildly mature. Been that way since the first CSW, one of which I still have lying around up at VIR.

You don't want to make it like work. It has to be reasonably fun or people lose interest. This is too much money to spend on stuff that gets used less than a boat, on average! ;)

fwiw I got a simucube 2 pro and there are lots of forums and videos for configuring the software, which is pretty easy to use. i treat my sim like my setups - 100 ppl online have already done what i need to do and helpfully posted a video about it. ymmv of course but a much easier entry than trying to do all the wheel config for diff cars. the miata vry different than the 718 both way diff from ferarri gte etc etc

this way you get the pro-sumer kit and tech w closer to consumer usability

only downside to simucube is only works for pc racing

I just sit in my race car and cry a lot. I keep the trailer door closed and the lights off.

Another post that needs a “sad” button. When does the alcohol start? ;) Eleven minutes?

I start late otherwise I am asleep on the couch by 630 and my wife and daughter call me an old man.

I've actually been driving on Xbox since I don't have an iRacing setup right now. I'm hoping to get into a real car soon but have been reading this thread and thinking about plunking down some $$$ fro a system.

Yes, it's time! :D

Let's see some more pics of rigs or videos in action!

I see a lot of discussion on this thread about the benefits of sim racing as well as a debate of which wheel to use. What about the computer to use?

I bought a cheap computer from Tiger Direct a few years ago to go iRacing and it was horrible which is why I abandoned the effort.

What is the cheapest "I bought this and it worked out great" computer?"

I also want to connect it to my TV and will just use the HDMI. Already have a steering wheel and pedal rig which I use with xBox.

Just need to buy the wheel and computer and learned to call people racist names (I kid! I kid!).

FWIW. not based on actual experience, but my research (here and elsewhere) looking for a good reasonably priced unit out of the box. I’m sure others will chime in on other options so I apologize if this causes confusion. I tend to mind-F decision such as these. So, as the usual trend goes, I mentally exhausted myself and just pulled the trigger and bought the damn thing. I’ll report back with my findings. I’m in same boat, using my tv and a Logitech G29 wheel/pedal setup to just get my feet wet without dropping $5k

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypow...?skuId=6362981

Was waiting for that, LOL.

For the record, I thought it was gonna come a lot sooner, but I WAS SURE it was gonna be you who said it....or maybe Dave.

Testing my "in car" view similar to my HD2 setup LOL...

Has anyone seen the Jordan Taylor vid of him rolling his Sim rig in a crash LOL

I actually enjoyed that Paul.

Not quite like watching you from the bleachers as you rip up the esses in the "goose", but a good watch none the less. (Can you tell I'm bored out of my gourd?)

Thanks for posting. I'm gonna video myself on my sim tonight and then watch how bad I drive. Never thought of doing the "in car" thing on a sim, but in these times......

Haha, here is the in car from the PCA Sim Race last Friday... Sportsman class.

:corn:

The most realistic sim rig out there... Apparently something broke on his rig and it literally rolled him LOL

@paul start with fixing the color of your gloves before you go for the more complex stuff :biggulp:

Paul - have you tried turning the in-game wheel off? Your wheel looks nice; seeing a duplicate in my hands and on screen always threw me off, so I turned the in-game wheel off. Let me try to attach a quick example with the in-game wheel off (don't mind the quality, projectors are difficult to capture well on video)


I'd love to see a better angle of that Jordan crash, those SimCraft units can really roll ya! For fun, I once loaded up Mario Kart's Rainbow Road mod in Assetto Corsa. It was all fun until I remembered there is essentially a massive jump in the middle of outer-space. My motion rig nearly threw me out of the chair! Haven't loaded that up ever again lol

Paul, looks like a really cool set up


I always have an issue with set ups not giving me brake feedback. I cant get that seat of your pants feeling when braking to figure out whats enough without over or under braking .On the track that has always been to me what sets most of us apart. Any of you guys find you set ups give you this feedback? This to me make my SIM experiences just frustrating .

Steve - do you have a good quality brake pedal that "loads"? Anything with a hydraulic damper should help a lot.. if you have not already tried that.

Then the only other things that come to mind (other than building a motion rig which is a whole different thing) are: sim vibe + transducers so you can feel traction loss with vibration and/or ensuring the graphics settings are such that it all feels lifelike. iRacing now supports pitch/roll/etc and I think that helps trick your senses into feeling g-force (a bit like the 360 degree movie theaters where you lean all over the place despite a level surface under your feet)

Matty

Hey Steve, as mentioned, a pedal with a loading feature, I use the Fanatec Clubsport V3's with the brake performance kit and find them great "but" and this is what others have alluded to is they need to be calibrated correctly no matter what you use. Some pedal sets combine brake/gas or can separate them out, some need to have a curve dialed into them to make them less sensitive under initial pressure, you want to have the brake force right in iracing, then with the Fanatec's you also get a rumble in the pedal under ABS or lockup so you "feel" it in your foot.

With all that being said open iRacing and go into a test session. Go into options and look at the controls, hit the gas/brake a few times and look at when it spikes to 100% I've seen a lot of systems where for some reason the brake pedal is like an on/off switch and the slightest press or 25% automatically spikes the brakes to 100%.... i don't re-calibrate my pedals everytime but before I leave the pits I make sure to move all my controls to the full range of motion to politely remind iRacing and the PC what the range of motion actually is, that includes putting my foot through the brake a couple of times for good measure.

Sorry for babbling!

iRacing Minimum PC Specs
 

I used to build computers as a kid, the skills don't go away. There is a 30-day free test software (Passmark-PerformanceTest) that tests an entire PC, including the RAM, main disk, graphic card and CPU. Passmark has a large database with performance on different components. I buy the updated versions occasionally.

I went into the iRacing website and checked their system requirements. Then using the Passmark published CPU ratings and Graphic cards rating, I set a baseline where at a minimum, my system should exceed the iRacing officially published information for the best combination of components they list. My goal was to reuse as much as possible from a nearly 10 years old PC I built (it was my data center before cloud computing became affordable), and I set a budget of $800 for parts needed, knowing that for $1200 I could get a brand new Desktop (sans monitor, keyboard, mouse) with decent specs for iRacing, but less quality of Case/Motherboard/Power-Supplu as my old PC.

Here the link to iRacing's System Requirements: https://www.iracing.com/membership/system-requirements/

PC Computers:

• Windows 8.1 64-Bit, Windows 10 64-Bit
• 64-bit Windows
• 4 core CPU or better – Some examples (but not limited to): AMD FX-6300, Intel Core i5-4430, Intel Core i5-2320, AMD Ryzen 3 1200
• 16 GB of RAM
• A gaming graphics card with at least 2GB of DEDICATED memory – Some examples (but not limited to): Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 @ 2 GB / GTX 1050 or ATI Radeon HD 7850 @ 2GB / AMD RX 550 or better
• 25 GB of free disk space (50 GB for all cars and tracks)
• Microphone optional, required for voice chat

Now to the task...

Operating System of Choice: Windows 10 Pro

For O/S, most people know that Windows 10 is faster than Windows 8 and there is some minor tuning in Windows 10 services and startup tasks, plus non-needed applications. I would benchmark a PC with a fresh install of the O/S, make adjustments, then benchmark it again to see the improvements in RAM and CPU, same hardware, different tuning, like a car, it gets faster. Systems running Windows 7 or Windows 7 Pro can be upgraded to Windows 10 today by providing their Windows 7 Product Key.

Graphic Card: Anything faster than a GTX1050 that is affordable for single monitor use

From iRacing listed cards, the fastest they have in the list is the NVidia GeForce GTX1050. Passmark has a rating of 5752 points for this card. This card is 4 years old already. So look at what video card is installed in the system you want to purchase pre-built, or the video card you want to buy if you build your own system, go to the Passmark website and check the Passmark G3D rating. Be aware that laptops use Mobile versions of the graphic card chipsets, and they are slower. As an example, the GTX1050 Mobile ranks at 4426, the GTX1050 Ti (Desktop/Server) ranks at 6383.

CPU: Anything that exceeds iRacing list of recommended CPUs

There is no secret that games run faster on the top AMD CPUs. From the list of recommended CPUs by iRacing, the fastest one is the AMD Ryzen 3 1200, it ranks at 6263 in the Passmark CPU mark. So look at what CPU is in the system you're interested, and check for its CPU mark exceeding this number.

RAM: Easy. 16Gbytes of the fastest the motherboard accepts

Disk: Easy. Any Solid State Drive (SSD) that fits the budget.

I have all the Windows 10 Pro software, anti-virus and network monitoring tools, iRacing, some apps (Office, browsers, and basic things) in less than 80 Gbytes including page file and hibernation file. Any 128Gb or higher storage SSD works fine. Avoid classic HDD (the magnetic type traditional disk drivers), they are too slow compared to SSD. I ran a test 4 years ago on system with a 1TB Seagate HDD and then a 1TB Samsung 850 SSD, Passmark reported a 3X higher score for the entire system (CPU, RAM, disk, GPU, etc.) just by swapping the drives with the same software in both.

My old PC specs (do not copy, you would be wasting money, this system is nearly 10 years old). I did not change any hardware component, it truly cost me $10 on parts to get iRacing running in this old PC from my set budget of $800 to upgrade. I wanted as much as possible to reuse my PS4 seat base, seat, steering wheel and pedals. I just wanted to test iRacing with the minimum $$$ invested and if I got engaged, then work my way up on better hardware, tuning, and very important >> Seat Time.

My specs:

- 850W power supply and a case with 5 fans.
- An ASUS X58 top of the line server motherboard
- 12Gb RAM (Corsair DDR3 at 1600 Hz)
- 600GB Intel SSD (320 series)
- Intel i7-980X (this is a 6-core CPU)
- GeForce GTX 470 (1.28 Gbytes)

My system is way below specs of what iRacing recommends. The biggest handicap is on the video card, my old GTX470 is rated by Passmark at 3175, and my system RAM is at 12Gb (I have 6 slots with 2Gb DIMMS already full).

On my first CPU benchmark (Windows 10 Pro), with zero optimization, Passmark reported a 8993 CPU mark, nicely above iRacing's best listed CPU.

The GTX470 reported 3754 points, higher than Passmark's baseline, but way below the top iRacing recommended graphic card on their website. However, pretty close to the numbers on the GTX660 and ATI HD7850, and much faster than the ATI RX550, all these cards recommended by iRacing.

So, I bought a $10 DVI to HDMI converter, because my video card only has DVI and mini-HDMI, and I wanted to use 13 years old 50" Plasma TV that is dedicated to my PlayStation 4 and Gran Turismo.

Desktops run cooler, and tolerate more heat. You don't want a shared laptop for iRacing and other home or office tasks, make it a dedicated Sim Racing PC. In this case, it is always cheaper to go for a Desktop.

I did some BIOS overclocking and Windows Services tuning, and now the CPU Passmark is reading over 11,000 points any time. I monitor the CPU during iRacing and it is running relaxed. The video card is the only hardware component that struggles. I run graphics in the medium setting, and it performs much smoother and with better resolution than anything I have seen in Gran Turismo Sport.

I like the idea of plugging a Desktop to an old TV set with 1080p capability to test iRacing on a budget. Although my PS4 Wheel/Pedals are not affordable (T-GT, with extra T3PA-Pro pedals and a brake pedal mechanical mod, not yet a load cell).

60Hz is not ideal, G27 pedals are not ideal, a $600 Desktop is not ideal, office chair and home made rigs, not ideal. But, as of now, my setup is not giving me any frustrations at all, it is the total opposite, so much fun that I currently spend 10x the time using iRacing compared to PS4-GT Sport. I also put an extension USB cable so I can switch from the Desktop-iRacing to the PS4-GT Sport in a few seconds.

There are plenty of PCs for sale, brand new, with better specs than my old Desktop to run iRacing. $600 would buy something better than what I have, $800 something pretty decent for Single monitor. Now, for triple monitors,VR, the PC needs much better video cards, stronger CPU, but $1500 should cover a PC that runs the multi-monitor setup just fine. Then there are pre-built systems from good brands (MSI, Asus, Corsair), and there is a little premium to pay there.

WOW, A/S. You lost me just after “I used to build computers as a kid” :p I wish I had your skills and knowledge, but alas, I struggle to operate an xBox. I too would like to move over to iRacing or AS, but get absolutely lost in the PC world. Right now I have a decent little rig, wheel and pedals running off xBox (son’s old one), and an older LED TV. I struggle with depth perception and grainy images, making it hard to see far enough ahead. PC is likely the only way to address this I suppose.

Some PC build considerations:

1. decision on screen setup (VR vs monitors etc).
Money allowing, triple screen is still considered the best by most ppl, but requires 3 screens ($$) and enough GPU (video card) to power them ($$). VR getting much better (FOV probably the most important attribute if you go VR), many ppl love it, but not for everyone and also requires a lot of GPU. Extra wide single monitor a pretty good option also and is useful as a PC monitor for other things (but obviously less immersive). Big TV can be tricky because of the input lag and latency. There are some TVs that are low input lag/high frequency/etc, but I would avoid this path unless you are using a TV you already own (in which case it’s free to try). Do your research on screens.. there are accepted "correct answers" wrt input lag, bezel width, mhtz etc.

2. enough CPU (processor) to power the sim at a graphics level you want. iRacing only uses a single core, so paying lots for a processor with more cores is a waste. You want to pay for faster clock speed/fewer cores as opposed to paying for less clock speed/more cores. Be careful of benchmark tests here as most will measure multi-core performance and that is not what iRacing uses. If you build a PC need to ensure the motherboard supports the CPU.

3. enough GPU (video card) to power your chosen screen setup at a graphics quality level you want at an acceptable frame rate for racing. For me, 100FPS (frames per second) is the minimum for smooth somewhat competitive racing (it is very hard in an intense race to deal with FPS dips even if infrequent). Now the tricky thing..... you can turn down all the graphics quality and get super high frame rates, but it will look ****. As you turn up the quality, the FPS drops, so need to balance screen/GPU/CPU/graphics settings (unless you are comfortable spending a lot). Perhaps most importantly.. you need a stable FPS number. The real test here is on the bigger tracks with a full grid (hot lapping is not indicative). There are also very good guides on which graphics settings are most hungry with iRacing. Some clear ones to avoid and others that are worth turning up due to the bang-for-buck ratio. All searchable on the internet, lots of advice and too much to go through.

4. G-synch vs free-synch. This is a technology to locks the frames on screen so they appear more crisp.
If you want to use this technology you need to match the monitor technology to the GPU choice. NVidia video cards use g-sync, so you would want g-sync enabled monitors. AMD video cards use free-sync so you would need free-sync enabled monitors.

5. you don’t need much RAM, but want it to be fast. 8Gb of 3600mhz is much better than 16 or 32Gb of 2400mhz (iRacing does not use much ram, but faster helps)

6. better to get a solid state hard drive than mechanical. Not a big cost difference and much faster loading/starting. Unless you want to use the PC to save lots of video footage, 512Gb of SSD (or even 256 at a pinch) would be much better than a big multi-terabyte mechanical HDD.

7. really important: if you go with triple screens, you need to make sure the video card has 3 DisplayPort outputs (1 for each screen, assuming you want to use DP and not HDMI). Some cards only have 2 or the third is hdmi. This messes everything up... so even if you don’t go triple screen, I would get a video card with 3DisplayPorts regardless allowing you to upgrade later. Again.. do not mix DP and HDMI. All of one or all of the other... will save you unnecessary headaches.

8. depending on budget, you can get a pretty good experience going with 2nd or 3rd tier hardware. You pay a big premium for latest/greatest but the performance improvement is relatively small (this is because computer hardware depreciates really fast - so buying the best thing from 1-2yrs ago often makes a lot of sense if on a budget).

9. when you work out your parameters/budget/etc... it’s probably worth at least considering a custom build outfit (unless you are comfortable building a PC? PCPartpicker is a great tool for this if you are). That way you pay for exactly what iRacing will utilize and nothing else. If not comfortable going that route then try to optimize around the general guidelines I outlined and avoid skimping on the GPU (save money in other places). Very good performance without paying the latest/greatest premium is 1080Ti or the 2070. They perform similarly and are very good options for triples or VR. If you are comfortable with either single screen, less FPS or less visual quality then there are many GPU options that will do the job for much less money. Keep in mind whatever you get, it still wont be enough and you will still need to fiddle around to balance quality and FPS. Like a lot of choices in this space: you need to decide whether you are dipping your toe in the water/determining whether this is something you will do a lot of.... OR whether you are pretty sure you will and in which case you want to avoid spending on lots of incremental upgrades. The quality sim gear holds reasonable value (high end pedals, DD wheels etc), very little of the PC components do.


Matty

has anyone used the Pimax 5k for VR? how does it compare to a tripple screen setup?

I just upgraded to a Fanatec club sport wheel. I've had their petals for a couple of years.

I lost the RJ 11 (or 12) cable to connect direct to the wheel, any reason why I can't run both USB. It seems to be working fine. Am I losing any features with the pedals this way?

For anyone interested here is my original build thread and a link to the current setup:

Original build thread

Current build and ballpark costs


Matty

I am moving and have to sell my beloved rig. Figured I'd post here as there were a few people inquiring about building a setup. If anyone is in the Southern California area, or willing to rent a truck, feel free to reach out if you are interested.

Here is a link to my build thread

I have a PC, but I'd imagine most would build their own for better value. I'd prefer to hold onto my custom OMP wheel I made with SSRG as a keepsake.

The setup (minus the PC and SSRG) is just over $14k without taxes or shipping costs; I would let it go to a good home for $8k.

I've tried many different motion platforms out there, and have personally preferred the seat-movers with rear traction loss, as it causes me to tighten my core, making me feel as if my on-screen actions have consequences. The triple projectors throw a large immersive picture, so it is easy to turn off the lights and lose yourself in a race. Feel free to ask any questions.

Here is a rundown of most of the setup:

Motion Chassis
SimXperience Stage IV 3DOF w/ Rear Traction Loss
SimXperience Diamond-plated Floorboard
Corbeau FX1 Racing Seat
2 x Buttkicker Gamer 2 and remotes
Real racing harness w/ quick release

Custom Triple Projector Setup
3 X Vivitek Qumi Q2 pocket projectors
Custom 80/20 bracket with 6 Fotomate macro adjusters
Custom hard surface triple projection screen wrapped in black felt
8” Touch Screen

Wheel
Accuforce v.1 on Accuforce height bracket
Q1R quick release
Momo Mod30
SSRG Custom wheel on OMP Alu 310 GT

Brakes
HPP 2 Pedal PRX-SE with extra springs and accessories

Accessories
Derek Spears Sequential Shifter
Derek Spears Track Boss Button Controller
Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1 surround speakers and subwoofer
Logitech G930 7.1 Wireless Gaming Headset
XPand 3D Gaming Glasses
Extra toolkit of spare parts (knitter switches, SLI Pros, Display Adapters, Ignition Switches, etc)


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