M758

Does the SCCA require a knee bar for custom cages?

Bryan Watts

Why does everyone always think of these as knee bars? In a properly built custom cage, the car shouldn't be anywhere near your knees. It should run either above the dash near the windshield or behind the dash. Anywhere else and it's a serious safety hazard for your legs. Even a light crash could result in broken leg bones.

As for SCCA legality, I'm 90% such a bar is required, but I don't have the GCR here in front of me. Whether it's required or not, you should install one, preferably in a place where it doesn't injure you and won't prevent you from getting out of the car in an emergency (i.e behind or above the dash).

JJG

M758,
email me privately and I can get you the GCR's from my disk (21Mb).

Geo

Amen. Some of the 944 cages I've seen are downright scary. There is no room behind the dash for the bar in a 944 unless you remove the heater (I'm keeping mine for the defroster in rain races). No bloody way I'd have a bar in front of my knee on the 944. Hell, my knees are probably going to be damned near touching the dash there anyway. I may slice a bit out of the top of the gauge pod portion to "countersink" the bar a bit. Not sure yet.

No, it's not required. IT uses the same cage rules as SS with a few changes. However, the specific rule is 18.2.5.E, p138 in the 2003 GCR:

"One (1) bar is recommended in a horizontal plane between forward cage braces in the dash area."

Adam Richman

Geo is correct per the GCR. Either in the 02 or 03 Super School at Roebling, I remember hearing however that this could very well become a requirement going forward (no timeline was specified). Its a good idea to have it in there (above or behind the dash) irrespective of being a requirement, I'd really hate to count on the firewall and floor boards to keep the area where MY LEGS are from buckling inward. Personally, I do not think I'd race without this, door bar protection and the 7th and 8th points to the firewall for personal safety reasons. Total cost for these additions is probably what it costs you to do a corner balance and alignment - money well worth spending on safety.

M758

Thanks I will take a look at how much room I have. Right now I sit so low that I probably won;t be able to see out the car with a bar over the dash. Undermight not be so bad with my sitting so low, but I'd need see where my knees come to.

I too don't want one infront my knees for the same reasons you an Brian said and that is why I don;t have one now. Anyway I will look into this further.

Geo

Review your Spec 944 rules. In IT you can cut your dash to accomodate your cage. I'm contemplating having the front crossbar sink into the dash gauge pod about half way for the same reason.

M758

Well this is getting complicated.

It looks like SCCA IT rules not require a bar like this. Other SCCA classes may require this bar.

I am thinking I will hold off on a "dash bar" until I know what class I would actually run in. Due to some removals my 944-spec car is not legal for IT anyway. There is a Regional Sedan class, but that is regional only. There is also talk of a Az only SCCA 944-spec type class. It think I will wait until a get the full story on rules and such.

Geo,
I checked out the Improved Touring Forum for cage rules and got really turn-off by the seeming myriad of rules. Some applying to IT and others not. Since I don't have the GCR (I am working on that) I figure I'd just hold off until I actually wanted to race.

At least NASA & PCA rules are pretty clear on cages and such.
BTW.. 944 spec only allows 6 points for their cages.

Thanks

Geo

What have you removed from your car? About the only thing I could see making you illegal in IT is removing the heater core for sure. Some say the heater can go and others feel otherwise.

Basically, IT uses the SS cage rules with a few very specific changes.

M758

Well,
My car weights 2400 lbs, I already added 50lbs ballast (is 2625 with me in it)

No headlights, No Headliner, No Washer bottle, Ride height may be too low (below 4"), No lines to the header core, Drilled front rotors, And probably more, but since I don't have the rules I am not 100% sure.

Geo

Yeah, you're definitely not IT legal.

The following will do you in:

No headlights

No washer bottle

Ride height at the rocker panel (not including the pinch weld) must be 5" minimum.

No drilled rotors.

You could run ITE, but you'd run against 951s there.