Toyo RR tires for racing
12-01-2014, 09:48 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Toyo RR tires for racing
Has anyone run the new Toyo RR tire on track? If so, what are you thoughts on performance and longevity.
I've been vey happy running hankooks Z214s, but there are none to be found in my size (275/40-17). In fact, that size is not even listed on the tire rack website any longer
, nor does discount tire list them. Not sure if they are just out, or if Hankook has stopped making them in that size.
And yes, I am well aware of R6's/A6's and their capabilities, I just don't like the price or longevity of those tires.
I've been vey happy running hankooks Z214s, but there are none to be found in my size (275/40-17). In fact, that size is not even listed on the tire rack website any longer
, nor does discount tire list them. Not sure if they are just out, or if Hankook has stopped making them in that size. And yes, I am well aware of R6's/A6's and their capabilities, I just don't like the price or longevity of those tires.
12-01-2014, 10:22 AM
#2
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The RR's are good!
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12-01-2014, 10:33 AM
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The RR won't be on par with a Hoosier in terms of overall grip, but its grip level will be much more consistent over the life of the tire. It's the required tire for SPB; we've been pretty happy with it for the most part.
12-01-2014, 11:06 AM
#4
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They're at least as good as the Hankooks and better than the Nittos or PSC's.
12-01-2014, 01:03 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
In my hands the Hankooks were as fast as R6's and lasted longer, both are faster than Nittos (which is still a damn good DE tire). Guess I'll give the RRs a try, need new shoes for Winterfest.
12-01-2014, 02:07 PM
#7
How do they compare to BFG R1s? (grip and Heat cycles)
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12-01-2014, 02:30 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
I've been racing on RR's in my Spec Miata in NASA and the Hoosier SM7's and SM6's in SCCA (basically the R7 and R6). I would put the RR's on par with the Hoosiers and they definitely last longer than the SM6 / R6. I haven't heat cycled a set of the SM7 / R7's yet so I can't compare the life. My lap times are pretty close on fresh RRs vs fresh Hoosiers also.
12-02-2014, 11:19 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
in the spec box, the RR's are significantly faster (as evidenced by shattering of just about all SPB track records since the transition from RA1s). The tires seam to come alive at about 2-3 HCs, remain relatively consistent and then fall-off rather dramatically at about 12-15 HCs (depending on how hard you push them and the track... e.g. NJMP curbing destroys tires). Kind of a shame if you ask me, as the RA1s lasted a lot longer, and given the spec series, I would prefer a tire that can remain competitive longer than one race weekend. We might as well move to R6's.
12-02-2014, 11:45 AM
#12
Race Car
We have found that Hankook quantities kind of come and go, we have to keep 3-4 sources bookmarked to keep them coming in 245/16 for SP2 so Lemming, you might want to track down another source or two.
On comparisons, with the BFG, lap times so similar that it's a toss up.
We had problems with a dip in the cross section around the entire circumference on the BFGs as if the tire bunches up in side load but pressure and camber differences may not show this characteristic on other cars.
Sidewall is more rounded on the BFG, so, there is sort of a side load give boundary that you can feel before the tire lets go, probably more pronounced on heavier or more stiffly sprung cars. Given this difference, I'd give the nod to the Z214 on newer smoother track (COAT, NOLA) and the BFG on rough/uneven tracks.
Softest of the Z214 available in a 16" is the medium so I can't compare the softest.
We have tried both other compounds (IIRC, the 51 & 71) and the softest of the two is a couple of ticks off Hoosier.
The RR, we have never used but my son raced against some of the 944 SP1s that had some of the first sets at TWS a year or two ago and several times since and IMO, they brought those cars/drivers closer to my son's SP2 times than they would have ordinarily been. One friend/driver commented that there "was no limit to the grip" in a 140 hp SP1 car.
The first crop gave blistering related delam problems but TOYO made those good with vouchers and fixed the problem.
On the heat cycles...., and this may be controversial...., but "lasting" and being fast throughout are two different things.
If you are as fast at 10-15 heat cycles on a tire as you were on cycles 1-8, you aint fast enough...
We generally get 1 qualifying session and 2-3 sprints (1 weekend) out of a set of tires and they are downhill from there. Usable for practice/fun race or an enduro but at P1 and track record breaking pace....useless.
I have about 10 sets of Hankooks with 5-7 heat cycles in 245/16 for cheap if anybody is interested...
Mileage may vary but my observations come from my own racing experience but moreso as a car builder and wrench in support of my son over the past few years with a 2600 lb (w/driver) 944 SP2 car. He holds PCA track records for 944 NA 8V cars at five tracks by quite a considerable margin over previous records and was #2 SP2 in the U.S. 2013.
1-Hoosier (broke Hallet track record by 1 sec on Hoosier that he previously held on Hankook same conditions)
2-Hankook Z214 (medium- the softest available to us) I'd place the RRs here.
3-Hankook Z214 hard - BFG R1 toss up (newest version panned out the same)
Nothing else matters....
T. Simon
On comparisons, with the BFG, lap times so similar that it's a toss up.
We had problems with a dip in the cross section around the entire circumference on the BFGs as if the tire bunches up in side load but pressure and camber differences may not show this characteristic on other cars.
Sidewall is more rounded on the BFG, so, there is sort of a side load give boundary that you can feel before the tire lets go, probably more pronounced on heavier or more stiffly sprung cars. Given this difference, I'd give the nod to the Z214 on newer smoother track (COAT, NOLA) and the BFG on rough/uneven tracks.
Softest of the Z214 available in a 16" is the medium so I can't compare the softest.
We have tried both other compounds (IIRC, the 51 & 71) and the softest of the two is a couple of ticks off Hoosier.
The RR, we have never used but my son raced against some of the 944 SP1s that had some of the first sets at TWS a year or two ago and several times since and IMO, they brought those cars/drivers closer to my son's SP2 times than they would have ordinarily been. One friend/driver commented that there "was no limit to the grip" in a 140 hp SP1 car.
The first crop gave blistering related delam problems but TOYO made those good with vouchers and fixed the problem.
On the heat cycles...., and this may be controversial...., but "lasting" and being fast throughout are two different things.
If you are as fast at 10-15 heat cycles on a tire as you were on cycles 1-8, you aint fast enough...
We generally get 1 qualifying session and 2-3 sprints (1 weekend) out of a set of tires and they are downhill from there. Usable for practice/fun race or an enduro but at P1 and track record breaking pace....useless.
I have about 10 sets of Hankooks with 5-7 heat cycles in 245/16 for cheap if anybody is interested...
Mileage may vary but my observations come from my own racing experience but moreso as a car builder and wrench in support of my son over the past few years with a 2600 lb (w/driver) 944 SP2 car. He holds PCA track records for 944 NA 8V cars at five tracks by quite a considerable margin over previous records and was #2 SP2 in the U.S. 2013.
1-Hoosier (broke Hallet track record by 1 sec on Hoosier that he previously held on Hankook same conditions)
2-Hankook Z214 (medium- the softest available to us) I'd place the RRs here.
3-Hankook Z214 hard - BFG R1 toss up (newest version panned out the same)
Nothing else matters....
T. Simon
12-02-2014, 12:17 PM
#13
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in the spec box, the RR's are significantly faster (as evidenced by shattering of just about all SPB track records since the transition from RA1s). The tires seam to come alive at about 2-3 HCs, remain relatively consistent and then fall-off rather dramatically at about 12-15 HCs (depending on how hard you push them and the track... e.g. NJMP curbing destroys tires). Kind of a shame if you ask me, as the RA1s lasted a lot longer, and given the spec series, I would prefer a tire that can remain competitive longer than one race weekend. We might as well move to R6's.
Just read about Toyo launching the R888R in the UK. The old R888s would be good for a half dozen HC before they fell off a cliff. Hope these new ones have better characteristics.
12-02-2014, 01:26 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Same here!! The Kooks need a lap to get sticky then are equal to better the R6's. They seem to cycle out before they cord (Rears anyway) but that's around 15 hc, before they becomes a DE tire. Buy 2 sets the 3rd set is FREE, vs R6's. I'm thinking about trying the C71 upfront to see how they stick/last. Set 2 new SP3 track records on well cycled kooks.
