LuigiVampa

I have some very good clients who know I am always going to the track and have repeatedly asked how they could join in the fun. The problem is they are mostly NYC guys without any trackable cars so doing something with NASA or PCA was not an option.

I thought it would be a nice thank to take them to a one day Skip Barber class which we did earlier this week. The only date left was for the Formula Skip cars and I thought it would be cool for them to drive something they wouldn't drive on the street.

The good news is the clients had a blast in spite of the fact that it was pouring in the morning and we were driving open cockpit, open wheel cars. It was worth the money in that regard. For me, I was very disappointed.

To some students the instructor's irreverent attitudes may have seemed charming. I thought it masked a certain arrogance and indifference to the students. The classroom instructor basically implied that the one day school was crap and to learn anything you had to take the three day school. It was rushed and the topics were not explained properly. The topic of downshifting and heel/toe was thoroughly confusing to anyone not previously familiar with the topic yet they told everyone they needed to heel/toe. I'll admit that it is hard to teach these topics in a short amount of time but the student didn't ask many questions because they could not figure out enough to ask the questions. I'm certain the instructor sensed this but he just rushed through his script without making sure they knew what he was talking about.

My next gripe was going out on track. The instructors had mazda "pace cars" and 2 or 3 student cars follow them around the track as they show you the line. There were about 3 pace car groups comprising about half the class and the other half of the students road in the pace car. Since it was raining there were a ton of spinouts and the instructors kept in contact on the radio. The instructors basically smack talked about drivers being stupid for most of the time while trying to be charming about it.

Since I brought my own helmet they asked me about my experience and I told them I drive with PCA. This was a license to smack talk about "weekend warriors". You see all these guys are "professional racers" so anyone else is clearly an idiot.

I was in the pace car as we were going through the lefthander at LRP and I talked about having a small spin there a few years ago when the grass was wet and I went for a ride. The instructor told me that I should never spin. I was astounded and told him that while spinning a lot is a problem you will never know the limits of your car if don't spin occasionally. Sure the idea would be to catch it before a full spin but sometimes that isn't possible. Nope. I was an idiot for suggesting this. He then smack talked about weekend warriors for the rest of the ride.

To sum it up, I think most of the students had a good time because they didn't know enough to know that they were being treated with contempt. Personally, I thought the instructors were just rushing to get through the day and had little or no passion for what they were doing. It was sad. I compared it to my experiences with PCA and NASA where most instructors have a passion for teaching. I wouldn't call it a complete waste as Skip Barber gives a decent amount of track time and my clients really enjoyed themselves even though all of them were thoroughly confused.

Would I do it again? Yes, but I might try to find a different racing school. The most important thing was that the clients enjoyed it. Perhaps an indoor karting school or something at Monticello next time.

Unless their multiday school is very different I would personally steer clear of Skip Barber in the future.

RickBetterley

Wow - what a terrible way to treat the customer.
Think what our businesses would be like if we treated our clients with contempt.
(Nice idea to take your clients on a 'thank you' day at the track; sounds like Skippy School could take a lesson from you)

24Chromium

Savyboy wrote a similarly themed review of his experience at Laguna Seca a few years back. I recall one of his biggest gripes being the poor condition of the cars. So much so that he didn't feel safe.

How were the cars you drove?

LuigiVampa

I can't really complain about the cars. There isn't much to one of the "formula" cars. I looked at the rotors, brakes and tires before I got into the car and they all looked fine. They use BF Goodrich G-force treaded tires and they seemed in decent shape although who knows how many heat cycles are on them.

The cars all started up fine and it was fun to use a sequential gearbox. I felt very "Formula 1" as I buzzed up and down through the gears.

This reminds me of two more points:

On a positive note, the "mechanics" (separate group from the instructors) were very happy to adjust pedals, seat positions, etc. They acted more professional than the instructors.

On a negative note the instructors weren't really concerned about safety like the mechanics were. A bunch of people thought you just attached the five point safety harness and that was it. I went around pulling people's belt tight. Since you share a car you are teamed up with a "partner". My partner was a nice guy and I would help strap him in. When I pulled the belt tight one of the instructors said, "I can still see him breathing. Better pull it tighter." I'm definitely not a touchy guy but he said it in such a way that it sounded obnoxious.

I just want to add that I made sure to keep a low profile and not act like a know it all. Because I don't know it all and neither do they. The only time I offered something up was when the instructor was basically saying that the only way to be faster around the track was to always go hard on the brake at the last moment. Since I was in the front row I offered that there were a few corners on the track where you merely brush the brake pedal to settle the car. (ex - sometime the downhill if I didn't bring my "large attachments" that day.) Wrong! I didn't debate him and kept my mouth shut for the rest of the class.

Frank 993 C4S

Thanks for sharing! Tis is very valuable to me as I have been looking to take some of my clients out for a similar event but was always afraid that this particular school had degraded by quite a bit due to their financial problems. The attitude that you saw displayed is probably reflective of larger underlying problems with the school. You'd never see this at the Porsche Driving School at Barber.

24Chromium

This is such a sad story. I've often thought of doing a school like this - if for no other reason that to drive a single seater - but can't get myself to do it after thinking of stories like these. I often wonder if its better to go the one-on-one coaching route, or to take a 3 day class with lots of class room instruction and seat time.

It also makes me wonder as to who they think their target customer is. If they ridicule the "weekend warrior", then who else are they looking for as their audience? I would think the DE guys and club racers would be a great source of customers, but maybe not. Perhaps they really only cater to the corporate team building/bonding type of event that you hosted? Guys who do it once and never again.

At any rate... I can tell you from personal experience as a small business owner, that I'd want hear this type of feedback from my customers. I urge you to write all this down (simple cut and paste now!) and send it to the school. Who knows, maybe they'll ask you back for another class on their dime.

kk2

No offense but most of the instructors are REAL paid racers and it is a REAL racing school. You can't take inexperienced drivers off the street and expect them to learn something in one day. You might be different, but that is the exception not the rule.

They are there to teach you how to race. Something that PCA and nasa instructors (it is DE not racing practice) do not do. Race craft, racing lines, and race braking are all much different than DE.

Frank 993 C4S

Heck - it's the instructor attitude that didn't seem to be professional. Nobody complained about lack of a novice learning experienced in a single day program. You might want to re-read the original post.

I did the complete Skippy program and racing series some 10 years ago and I have to disagree with you on the focus for the 1 day intro school. It was primarily focused on car control at the time.

kk2

Instructor attitude, in this case, is one person's perception. I wasn't there, therfore I'm not going to demonize anyone.

ProCoach

Correct. Considering many of the PSDS instructors are former "elite" level SBRS instructors, this story is all the more tragic.

That is not true, and the instructors are paid a pittance. If they were "paid racers," they wouldn't be doing one-day "experience" events. The three-day racing school and the race series is still a real racing school, but a majority of the programs offered currently by the school are not racing programs.

Such a shame, as the core group of exceptional instructors have all left or been let go, due to the ever more pervasive bloodletting (better known as fiscal austerity measures). At one time, SBRS was THE BEST, but with few exceptions, most of the "institutional equity" is gone. Try Dennis Macchio at Bertil Roos...

kk2

Obviously they aren't f1 drivers, but I know a few of them race in different series and they definitely aren't "gentlemen drivers."

we all know not all pro drivers can make ends meet via racing alone.

I don't know the intricacies of SB but I'd assume the staffing isn't too different between the 1 and 3 day programs.

morsini

Dennis's program is top notch! I did it several years ago and it was a blast and the instructors were great.

utkinpol

Frankly i do not care much for any system that exists mostly to support itself. Schools like that where people who cannot heel toe are getting sit into open wheeler race car - it is not about driving skills, it is about circus on wheels.
As of condescending attitude - it is nothing new, really, it exists in many places, some pca clubs cultivate that, some do not, most private clubs do not have it at all as they interested to keep you as a customer.
with time you just learn with whom it is worth to work and with whom it is better not to. What is good - there are more tracks open every season, plenty of clubs and groups to go with, good people you can trust to be in the right seat and give you pointers and advice of what you do wrong - there is 0 reason to tolerate any jerks who think earth revolves around them.

ninjabones

Sorry to hear this... i did a Skippy school at Lime Rock about 8 years ago and it was great. Probably the thing that got me hooked on this crazy sport. I guess Bruce MacInnes isn't there any more?

E55AMG

Frank, depending on how many people you're talking about you'd probably be better off doing something like we did at NJ - rent the track and bring in a pro like Povoledo or Ron and they will have a blast.