AudiOn19s

Like any other street car compromises were made to make it better on the street that cause it to be a little unstable at the track in stock form. The limits are higher than most so you have larger moments than in other cars

Get adjustable toe links with no rubber and even better yet get the ones that have bump adjustability, remove the rubber from the suspension and put a good alignment under it (rear toe can make a world of difference in how stable they are) and it becomes a very stable and predictable car to drive near the limit.

997rs4.0

To me it feels like a lot of drivers don't know their limits. I made a lot of stupid mistakes in my mk1 10 years ago. Spun it several times! Luckily never got hurt or really damaged the car. Haven't had as much time to drive the last 5-6 years, two small kids and a lot of work. So when I go to the track I really have to remind myself to drive to my current ability! Hard thing to do.

multi21

I think you really nailed it Peter. When I first bought my 996 GT3 over 8 years ago, I had experience but still had to respect the car and was slower in it than my previous car because it needed to be learned at an incremental pace. One of the things that also helped was pushing the limits on a slower track to get the feel of how the car reacts when it gets out of shape so that you know what to do on the faster tracks. Tossing it around for lack of a better term.

I never got the rear toe links until recently and still haven't put it on track with the new links, but can attend that the rear alignment does get out of whack quickly without them. Luckily I was always able to tell when the car felt "nervous or jittery" and knew it was time to realign.

The biggest thing I can say this that the car demands 100% respect 100% of the time because if you relax or have a moment when you are not concentrating enough, it will bite you -- but that's what makes it such a GREAT car. It's always so engaging, no nannies to save you and rewards you when well driven. All in all a great car!

Coochas

Two other things strike me.
1) There are a lot of 996 GT3 based cars relative to other models at Porsche events.
2) I think incidents are more common as people are progressing up the ladder in talent. As people go further up the ladder, they often opt to get a more 'track focused' car such as a 6-GT3. It's also a lot of bang for the buck.

I also agree with slowly building of course. I moved to a whole new type of car this year and slowly built up to where I am happy. It took me a season to do this. I guess that's huge part of the difference between pros and amateurs. The pro would build up over a session or two!

kgorman

It would be interesting to see 996 Gt3 crash % vs Z06. In NorCal there are tons of Z06's (or there used to be). I never drove one, but my sense was they where much easier to drive fast. Betcha there are lots of people on here who have driven or have both. That said, it was also my sense that the guys going fast in z06's were moderate drovers.

996FLT6

First time on track with 6gt3 I spun 3 times on the 1st lap after warmup lap. Was really embarrassing trying to explain to the checkerflag station guy what happened. The car demands lotta respect. Too much steering angle too much lift. What a fun car though once you get it with more trackdays. Mike

Rob996

Matt, I've also witnessed a disproporiate amount of incidents with 6gt3 in DE events than any other. Porsche model.. Most of the time it's the car/driver losing control in isolation without any other car being involved.. Which is the best news in this tread.

I agree with most, it's the driver driving over his ability.. What I've found interesting is seeing and hearing about instructors smashing these cars multiple times.. Which pushes to conversation into WTF... Yes we are all human.. And lots of people just don't learn..

Sure the car can be tuned and modified to handle better, too bad these 6gt3 folks spend the money on upgrading skills in unison with the car..

It would be interesting to see how many of the 6gt3's still in service have damage drama?

Matt Lane

Lots of great input - thanks for sharing. Especially the honest ones here among us that will admit it's a lot of car to handle.



Besides the technical lessons learned on suspension and alignment - sounds like just another situation where progressive driver skills and constant attention are paramount, with perhaps less margin for error than other cars.

My 993 never gets moving that fast. Later models have some stability management that may save your butt if things get real ugly.

Still, fascinating. It's quite the car.

Cheers

Matt

FFaust

What do you mean Matt "they are not that common"? You are in Montreal, they are common.

I don't think that I would/could blame the car for any of this. IMH, the 996 GT3 is a very honest car and it doesn't bite. It gives great feedback, but it won't save you if YOU mess up. There's no need to be "cautious" as I think that cautious is the wrong word, but you do need to be progressive, as was stated above. Build a rapport, feel the car, make it your partner and you will be rewarded.

Have you ever noticed how, if you start the day in the rain, being exceedingly smooth, your driving seems to be so much better once the track dries out? Well it's the same with this car, you have to build up to it... every time.

mmuller

I drive a 6GT3 in DE and a Spec Boxster in Club Racing. The 6GT3 is my first and only DE car. I have been driving DE for 3 years total.

I would agree with Francois. The car is an incredibly honest car, that is highly communicative in its feed back. Every time I have spun my 6GT3, it told me it was going to do it well in advance. I have spun it both slow and fast, but never as a surprise. I share the car with my wife, who has also spun it several times including a light impact with a tire barrier. She would agree with you that the car was telling her the situation was wrong.

As to why a spin or loss of control leads to impact is for two reasons. Firstly, money doesn't equal talent. Just because you can buy the car, doesn't mean you can buy the skill required of the car. The 6GT3 has no nannies. You spin it, and your on your own. So if your toolbox is out of tools at that point, your up the creek.

Secondly, the car is so capable, a healthy amount of speed is almost always part of the recipe of the impact. Once again, no talent will be highlighted here in an unfortunate way. That's not to say that everyone that drives one is either a pro, or and idiot. It's that sometimes the drivers of these cars misalign their known talent level with an on track decision. The car being what it is will easily allow you to do this, but rarely forgive you for it.

I also wanted to comment on the theme that the car requires more attention. I disagree with this as every car on a racetrack requires attention. In some ways my SPB is easier to drive, and in some ways harder. But the attention level is the same, no more, no less. When a car car moves, the reaction time to the decision to act is the same. The movement of that action is what changes. If this isn't the case, then your just traffic on the racetrack.

GTgears

I think you nail it in practical terms, while saying that the driver wasn't up to the car. I applaud your honesty. The cars got a lot better than the air cooled cars but they are still 911s.

First time I drove a 996 chassis car it was a retired Koni Challenge car. Went into a corner too hot and lifted. Wagged really hard on me. Thank Dog I had ten years of air cooled cars behind me. Back on throttle and reversed my steering and I caught it. But just barely. Pitted because I needed a breather after that. They do demand respect. Any 911 does.

They are unique and I think we see many jumping from front engine rwd or awd (like an STi or EVO) without understanding the difference in chassis dynamics.

I'm far from perfect and have spun a bunch. Every single time it was me, and not the car, who caused the spin.

wanna911

Poor factory LSD, Lift produced at higher speeds, No TC , changing toe eccentrics, lots of action at the limit.

Give that to a beginner or intermediate or even advanced driver and it can bite. An LSD is a huge addition. That and locking the toe up would have reduced incidents dramatically IMO
.

I purposely did not buy one because i knew i wasn't ready for it.

AudiOn19s

Tracked mine 4 seasons now. 1 spin, no contact ever. Maybe I should drive harder?

I believe my track background on bikes helped me with discipline to drive the Gt3 cleanly. I also knew the shortcomings of the car in stock form and they were addressed early on.

winders

Root cause is the driver....no need to look any further than that!

Crazy Canuck

Matt, the car tells you what it's doing. You just have to identify that it is speaking to you and what it is saying. This is primarily done through the seat of your pants. It takes some time to figure it out.

The car reacts to your inputs. Immediately. You try to do too much too soon it'll let go.

They like gas. It stabilizes the car.

Toe links are a safety item.
LSD is a safety item. The car wags under heavy braking, especially going downhill, with a non-functioning LSD.
Coolant fittings and hoses are an area of concern. The hoses themselves are cheap. Replace them periodically along with the cable ties for the coolant line over the driver's side driveshaft from transmission cooler to the engine. Mine failed. Going into T7 at Tremblant spilling coolant on my loaded tire and onto Chris Rouleau's front bumper. Him and the 4 guys immediately behind him were thankful I run water and water wetter. No damage but I came close to the inside Armco.
A good comfortable seat and harnesses make the car easier and less tiring to drive.

The car is rewarding to drive well but is somewhat unforgiving. Give it the respect it deserves.

When I got mine I drove it on street tires to feel out the car. Then I put on R compounds and pushed a little more gradually. I've spun it a few times at Quarry at Calabogie (not enough weight on the rear wheels), coming out of the esses (throttle is not an on-off switch) but the most "exciting" moment came coming down T2 at Tremblant. The car kept rotating after the turtles on the right going into the braking zone going into the Esses. It took very conscious thought to turn my wheel to the left and get on the gas to get the car straight and then brake heavily. I blew the corner and scared myself silly but I learned a few lessons. One was I was on Nitto NT-01s. Good long lasting tire but I was exceeding their limitations. I was going too fast and could not straighten the car and brake at the same time. I drive MPSCs now exclusively at LCMT. Nittos would be OK at Calabogie with the extra grip of the tarmac.

If you get one ensure you get an Instructor who has the same car (or had one) in the passenger seat on a regular basis to safely reduce your learning curve.

It's a great car and very satisfying to drive. I love mine. It is not as fast as the newer cars but they have computers and traction control. Good or bad it is the driver driving the car. If the driver tells the car to do something wrong there are consequences.