First time instructing, what a hoot!!
08-27-2014, 04:33 PM
#16
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
Glad your first was a positive experience. Wait till you get the kid in the 944t with the heater duct stuck open.
08-27-2014, 11:53 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Jeez Mike.. Feel better. Very sorry to hear how banged up you were.
08-28-2014, 12:43 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Last Saturday and Sunday I tried instructing for the first time at a PDS event at TWS going CCW. I suspect my reasons for doing this are pretty typical, giving back to the sport, hoping to make myself a better driver, and reduced track fees. I wouldn't be driving a nearly the level I am today without my instructors, you see a lot more when you're not actually driving the car, and I can't say the free track time was a big factor, but it was a factor.
I was actually disappointed when my student was a no show and just ran my sessions Saturday morning. A blue student's car became disabled and his father wanted him to finish out the weekend in his car and the CDI asked me to instruct the son.
His father's car was a 2011 911 Turbo S - a lot of car for a newbie to handle.
It started with very rough braking and steering inputs, but the kid listened really well. I told him to keep the front straight speed to no more than 110 MPH and as the speedo wound up he stopped at 110 as if that was the speed limit and there was a highway patrol cruiser sitting at pit out
. He got better about braking, but was still stomping on the pedal so I had him come out with me in my E36 crapcan so I could show him what I meant.
Drove 3-4 laps driving at the pace and exactly how I wanted him to drive it. Then drove 2-3 more at speed to show what one can get away with by being balanced and seducing the car into turns rather than brute forcing it.
Had one more session on Saturday and he improved enough to let him up to 120 on the front straight. It was a lot of fun, much more so than I expected, but it turns out that was nothing.
On Sunday, took him out for another ride in the morning and then did our 4 blue sessions. The light bulb started going off and his lap times dropped like a stone. His brake release got so good in T1 that I could no longer tell when he was fully off the brakes and he was comfortably trail braking it in. I had removed the front straight speed limit, but he still kept it where he was comfortable and it was clear he respected the car.
He had fun and I could not believe the satisfaction I felt when he started reeling in and passing cars on Sunday that had blown his doors off on Saturday. I don't think I've had that much fun on the race track since I was in green and the light bulbs started lighting up. I'm still grinning about it today at work, two days later
My only regret is I wish I would have remembered to point out that he was nearly the fastest blue that day while only using about 1/3 of the horsepower available in that car - he drove that rocket like a "momentum" car.
I think I now understand why instructors will volunteer even if they don't have a car. I can't wait to go back.
Just wanted to share.
-Mike
I was actually disappointed when my student was a no show and just ran my sessions Saturday morning. A blue student's car became disabled and his father wanted him to finish out the weekend in his car and the CDI asked me to instruct the son.
His father's car was a 2011 911 Turbo S - a lot of car for a newbie to handle.
It started with very rough braking and steering inputs, but the kid listened really well. I told him to keep the front straight speed to no more than 110 MPH and as the speedo wound up he stopped at 110 as if that was the speed limit and there was a highway patrol cruiser sitting at pit out
. He got better about braking, but was still stomping on the pedal so I had him come out with me in my E36 crapcan so I could show him what I meant.Drove 3-4 laps driving at the pace and exactly how I wanted him to drive it. Then drove 2-3 more at speed to show what one can get away with by being balanced and seducing the car into turns rather than brute forcing it.
Had one more session on Saturday and he improved enough to let him up to 120 on the front straight. It was a lot of fun, much more so than I expected, but it turns out that was nothing.
On Sunday, took him out for another ride in the morning and then did our 4 blue sessions. The light bulb started going off and his lap times dropped like a stone. His brake release got so good in T1 that I could no longer tell when he was fully off the brakes and he was comfortably trail braking it in. I had removed the front straight speed limit, but he still kept it where he was comfortable and it was clear he respected the car.
He had fun and I could not believe the satisfaction I felt when he started reeling in and passing cars on Sunday that had blown his doors off on Saturday. I don't think I've had that much fun on the race track since I was in green and the light bulbs started lighting up. I'm still grinning about it today at work, two days later
My only regret is I wish I would have remembered to point out that he was nearly the fastest blue that day while only using about 1/3 of the horsepower available in that car - he drove that rocket like a "momentum" car.
I think I now understand why instructors will volunteer even if they don't have a car. I can't wait to go back.
Just wanted to share.
-Mike
-Felix
08-28-2014, 12:51 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Been instructing this time around for five years and had my first "BAD" off 10 days ago at Summit Main T9. The student, an HPDE2 student who asked me to go out for a session with him, lifted coming out of T9 and the car rotated, hit the tire wall on the inside right nearly head on, and then flipped onto its roof.
I've been seeing a host of doctors and specialists this week as I'm not "recovering" as quickly as I'd hoped... Turns out my kidneys are protesting the impact and my lungs are not happy either, 10 days later.
My point is, PLAN and prepare for that day when things go wrong. I did, was wearing my hans and in a fixed back racing seat with Schroth 6 point harnesses. My arms were in an "X" holding the straps at at the upper chest, and I did not panic, and talked the student through the process of getting the car off and calming down. Get that plan, and practice it, and stick to it. Panic at the disco is NOT what you want when stuck inside of a very small car upside down with no way out of it. Think about that, and think hard about the potential ramifications on your personal life.
Welcome to the brotherhood.
Mike Kelly
I've been seeing a host of doctors and specialists this week as I'm not "recovering" as quickly as I'd hoped... Turns out my kidneys are protesting the impact and my lungs are not happy either, 10 days later.
My point is, PLAN and prepare for that day when things go wrong. I did, was wearing my hans and in a fixed back racing seat with Schroth 6 point harnesses. My arms were in an "X" holding the straps at at the upper chest, and I did not panic, and talked the student through the process of getting the car off and calming down. Get that plan, and practice it, and stick to it. Panic at the disco is NOT what you want when stuck inside of a very small car upside down with no way out of it. Think about that, and think hard about the potential ramifications on your personal life.
Welcome to the brotherhood.
Mike Kelly
08-28-2014, 04:32 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Mike - From a newby Green driver that just started DE events this past spring, I'd like to toss out a huge "Thank you!" to you and all the other instructors that risk life and limb in working with us new guys.
I spent many hours airborne and in briefing rooms during a 23 year USAF career instructing flying training in the KC-135R, so I can appreciate the "pucker factor" that you guys go through as you try to teach us new concepts and ideas at 110 mph. I also understand the satisfaction when you can literally see the light bulb go off when someone gets what you are trying to teach them.
I'm looking forward to going "solo" in my first DE event as much as I looked forward to going solo in a T-37 almost 30 years ago.
To all you guys and gals that put forward the extra time and effort (both on the track and behind the scenes) to make DE's safe and successful, I offer my sincere thanks!
Rick
I spent many hours airborne and in briefing rooms during a 23 year USAF career instructing flying training in the KC-135R, so I can appreciate the "pucker factor" that you guys go through as you try to teach us new concepts and ideas at 110 mph. I also understand the satisfaction when you can literally see the light bulb go off when someone gets what you are trying to teach them.
I'm looking forward to going "solo" in my first DE event as much as I looked forward to going solo in a T-37 almost 30 years ago.
To all you guys and gals that put forward the extra time and effort (both on the track and behind the scenes) to make DE's safe and successful, I offer my sincere thanks!
Rick
08-28-2014, 05:01 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
08-28-2014, 06:17 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,363
Received 4,550 Likes
on
2,585 Posts
I like instructing about as much as I like driving, and consider the risk to be roughly similar.
Two things that jumped out at me when I began instructing:
- Keep aggressive students under control. Tighten the leash if needed. Such students aren't too common.
- Expect the unexpected, and be ready to respond to it. A student can do something right 5 times in a row, then do it way wrong the next time.
Some things I learned as I gained more instructing experience:
- Know the runoff areas and what you're going do if a student makes a mistake in each part of the track (braking too late, turning in early, etc.). You can't fully prepare for every possible scenario, but you can prepare for many of them, and it helps.
- Develop the ability to sense trouble early, so that there's time to fix things without too much drama.
Case in point is T9 at SP, where many have spun, and many of them have hit a wall or rolled. Once they've turned in, I tell them "eyes up". And if they begin to lift, I assertively and immediately tell them "stay on the gas". Sorry to hear about the incident Mike, hope you recover soon and fully.
Two things that jumped out at me when I began instructing:
- Keep aggressive students under control. Tighten the leash if needed. Such students aren't too common.
- Expect the unexpected, and be ready to respond to it. A student can do something right 5 times in a row, then do it way wrong the next time.
Some things I learned as I gained more instructing experience:
- Know the runoff areas and what you're going do if a student makes a mistake in each part of the track (braking too late, turning in early, etc.). You can't fully prepare for every possible scenario, but you can prepare for many of them, and it helps.
- Develop the ability to sense trouble early, so that there's time to fix things without too much drama.
Case in point is T9 at SP, where many have spun, and many of them have hit a wall or rolled. Once they've turned in, I tell them "eyes up". And if they begin to lift, I assertively and immediately tell them "stay on the gas". Sorry to hear about the incident Mike, hope you recover soon and fully.
08-28-2014, 08:57 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
One of the best 'instructor threads' out there: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ructor-stories
08-28-2014, 09:33 PM
#25
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
One of the best 'instructor threads' out there: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ructor-stories
08-28-2014, 09:49 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Trust me, its worth the read all the way thru ...
Nuggets like this abound:
"On the other hand I once had a student at Grattan who had done plenty of schools, but had to be told every single lap exactly when to brake, turn, accelerate and so on. As long as I did that he was fine, but if not then he'd continue straight ahead at the same speed. It wasn't until the second day that he told me that decades before he'd spent a month in a coma following a serious car accident. Ever since then he'd had memory problems."
Nuggets like this abound:
"On the other hand I once had a student at Grattan who had done plenty of schools, but had to be told every single lap exactly when to brake, turn, accelerate and so on. As long as I did that he was fine, but if not then he'd continue straight ahead at the same speed. It wasn't until the second day that he told me that decades before he'd spent a month in a coma following a serious car accident. Ever since then he'd had memory problems."
08-28-2014, 10:32 PM
#27
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On Rennlist, apparently
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
18 Posts
Mike - From a newby Green driver that just started DE events this past spring, I'd like to toss out a huge "Thank you!" to you and all the other instructors that risk life and limb in working with us new guys. I spent many hours airborne and in briefing rooms during a 23 year USAF career instructing flying training in the KC-135R, so I can appreciate the "pucker factor" that you guys go through as you try to teach us new concepts and ideas at 110 mph. I also understand the satisfaction when you can literally see the light bulb go off when someone gets what you are trying to teach them. I'm looking forward to going "solo" in my first DE event as much as I looked forward to going solo in a T-37 almost 30 years ago. To all you guys and gals that put forward the extra time and effort (both on the track and behind the scenes) to make DE's safe and successful, I offer my sincere thanks! Rick
Nice to hear the appreciation..
08-30-2014, 08:06 AM
#28
Didn't want to be the Killjoy, but sitting here with bruised lungs and kidneys, the timing was pretty good to chime in with that reminder. I love instructing. I love coaching racers. I will continue to do both. But we all say we know the risks. Until they are nibbling at our toes, and the track rescue crew has you in the rescue squad checking you over, those risks aren't reality. My story was meant only as a reminder that when **** goes wrong, it generally goes that way in a hurry.
Lessons learned from my most recent incident... It's best to stick with the student assigned to you from the beginning of the day. You both warm up together, and if you enjoy each other, you click and can make good strides towards a great experience for both. Getting into someone's car for a session, you don't know as much. You aren't as accustomed to the car, and by session 3 or 4 they are "warmed up" and at speed. You may miss or overlook something from the right seat that you might have picked up starting off the day slow in the same platform. There is no harm in waving off a request from a student who'se instructing went MIA.
I'm glad Mike has decided to instruct and I hope others give it a try as well. Driving from the right seat is one of the most rewarding aspects of my life. So much so that during this event, I was a "Call in" instrcutor. They were short and I didn't have time to prep a car. I didn't even DRIVE that day. Just showed up to help out and instruct. That's how much I enjoy instructing.
We need more new instructors who truly want to instruct and we need more training for instructors. Without new instructors the sport whithers on the vine. We can't have that.
Mike Kelly
Lessons learned from my most recent incident... It's best to stick with the student assigned to you from the beginning of the day. You both warm up together, and if you enjoy each other, you click and can make good strides towards a great experience for both. Getting into someone's car for a session, you don't know as much. You aren't as accustomed to the car, and by session 3 or 4 they are "warmed up" and at speed. You may miss or overlook something from the right seat that you might have picked up starting off the day slow in the same platform. There is no harm in waving off a request from a student who'se instructing went MIA.
I'm glad Mike has decided to instruct and I hope others give it a try as well. Driving from the right seat is one of the most rewarding aspects of my life. So much so that during this event, I was a "Call in" instrcutor. They were short and I didn't have time to prep a car. I didn't even DRIVE that day. Just showed up to help out and instruct. That's how much I enjoy instructing.
We need more new instructors who truly want to instruct and we need more training for instructors. Without new instructors the sport whithers on the vine. We can't have that.
Mike Kelly
08-30-2014, 10:33 AM
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
Didn't want to be the Killjoy, but sitting here with bruised lungs and kidneys, the timing was pretty good to chime in with that reminder. I love instructing. I love coaching racers. I will continue to do both. But we all say we know the risks. Until they are nibbling at our toes, and the track rescue crew has you in the rescue squad checking you over, those risks aren't reality. My story was meant only as a reminder that when **** goes wrong, it generally goes that way in a hurry.
Lessons learned from my most recent incident... It's best to stick with the student assigned to you from the beginning of the day. You both warm up together, and if you enjoy each other, you click and can make good strides towards a great experience for both. Getting into someone's car for a session, you don't know as much. You aren't as accustomed to the car, and by session 3 or 4 they are "warmed up" and at speed. You may miss or overlook something from the right seat that you might have picked up starting off the day slow in the same platform. There is no harm in waving off a request from a student who'se instructing went MIA.
I'm glad Mike has decided to instruct and I hope others give it a try as well. Driving from the right seat is one of the most rewarding aspects of my life. So much so that during this event, I was a "Call in" instrcutor. They were short and I didn't have time to prep a car. I didn't even DRIVE that day. Just showed up to help out and instruct. That's how much I enjoy instructing.
We need more new instructors who truly want to instruct and we need more training for instructors. Without new instructors the sport whithers on the vine. We can't have that.
Mike Kelly
Lessons learned from my most recent incident... It's best to stick with the student assigned to you from the beginning of the day. You both warm up together, and if you enjoy each other, you click and can make good strides towards a great experience for both. Getting into someone's car for a session, you don't know as much. You aren't as accustomed to the car, and by session 3 or 4 they are "warmed up" and at speed. You may miss or overlook something from the right seat that you might have picked up starting off the day slow in the same platform. There is no harm in waving off a request from a student who'se instructing went MIA.
I'm glad Mike has decided to instruct and I hope others give it a try as well. Driving from the right seat is one of the most rewarding aspects of my life. So much so that during this event, I was a "Call in" instrcutor. They were short and I didn't have time to prep a car. I didn't even DRIVE that day. Just showed up to help out and instruct. That's how much I enjoy instructing.
We need more new instructors who truly want to instruct and we need more training for instructors. Without new instructors the sport whithers on the vine. We can't have that.
Mike Kelly
Interesting point about instructor change ups. I know as a non-solo student I didn't like it when it happened. Every instructor is different and has their own subtle ideas about "what is right" and the first runs of a weekend sort out expectations. With a mid-weekend instructor switch, this was reset. Necessary evil I suppose, but best avoided if at all possible.
On the whole giving back thing, I'm better at driving a car on a race track than other sports, but I'm certainly no natural. My progress has been starts and fits. Rocketed up through green to blue to yellow and then was yellow forever until I could claw my way into white - it was work. Point is, I would have never gotten to where I am today without a bunch of friendly, but brutally honest instructors.
On the topic of satisfaction, I a few years ago I had a ride with an instructor with my stated goal of "getting into white". I didn't go well and I ended the weekend with a laundry list of stuff to work on. Eventually made it into white about a year later. Earlier this year I went out with that instructor again and his comment back was "I can't think of a single thing the really criticize"
. Knowing him, it was not a blow off and it highlights another challenge with this sport, the better the student is, the harder it is for the instructor/coach to provide truly helpful feedback.
-Mike
08-30-2014, 10:50 AM
#30
I'm in....
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Lessons learned from my most recent incident... It's best to stick with the student assigned to you from the beginning of the day. You both warm up together, and if you enjoy each other, you click and can make good strides towards a great experience for both. Getting into someone's car for a session, you don't know as much. You aren't as accustomed to the car, and by session 3 or 4 they are "warmed up" and at speed. You may miss or overlook something from the right seat that you might have picked up starting off the day slow in the same platform. There is no harm in waving off a request from a student who'se instructing went MIA.