JackOlsen

I would do it differently.

I started thinking about this the other day -- since it seems like it could be a sub-$100 modification without a whole lot of downside to it. But the question I keep hitting is whether it would be worthwhile at all?

Active wings are banned in pretty much all race groups, so there's not a lot of data/experience/wisdom out there. I know that you could potentially re-position a wing on a 911 as a kind of air brake, but because of the particular track I drive at, that seems like more trouble than it's worth.

But would there be a benefit to a 'reduced drag' position for a wing?

The kits I see all move the tail end of the wing. To my mind, this might increase the likelihood of the wing ending up in the low-drag position in the event of a failure. It seems like moving the leading edge of the wing up would make more sense, with air pressure helping to return it to the 'dead man's' position of down (and full-drag).

The kits I see use electronics and motors to reposition the wing. My thinking would be simpler and lighter -- a pedal in the cockpit (near the dead pedal) to activate low-drag with a bowden-type cable going back to the uprights and a lever in the upright pulling the front end up when the pedal is activated. (If I was able to draw, I'd include a picture of what I mean.)

So the idea would be that in 4th and/or 5th gear, on a straight, the driver presses a pedal to the left of the clutch and the wing goes into low-drag position. When the driver moves his left foot for the end-of-the-straight downshift, the wing returns to its higher-downforce position. If something breaks, the front end of the wing would likely be pushed down into its higher-downforce position, where it's saddled in the upright.

It doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to build the pieces for it. And absent the electric actuators, I don't see a big weight penalty -- or drag penalty from the motors/actuating arms sitting somewhere on the rear of the uprights.

Has anyone done it in a way that has been tested to see if it's worthwhile? A guy documented an active wing he built on Pelican's board, but I don't think there was any final conclusion on its effectiveness.

Any thoughts?

Here's my trackday wing setup, for reference:

2BWise

The potential of active aero is huge! A high downforce 2, 3, 4, or more, elements to produce huge download and without the huge drag penalty. Not only that but there is the possibility of doing yaw control mid corner to improve the balance of the car mid corner. You could also do active elements to vary with speed so you get huge downforce at low speed and enough at high speed to keep drag to a minimum. You could change the center of pressure with speed or tune it to provide certain levels of downforce at certain corners. The options are so many more than just DRS.

Zuluracerx

I'd be all for it. Here's what 1500 pounds of downforce does to my car going through the NASCAR banking at Cal Speedway. Would be awesome if I could adjust on the fly…

CAM14

Fist pic, I spy a Mazda headlight pop-up motor.

Interesting idea and Chaparral proved its value years ago. I suppose the primary reason it is banned in almost all form of racing was due to it being so successful. Keeping with the KISS principal is a good idea but not sure you can really pull it off for active aero.

You could always just buy a solution <Aeromotions link> but do not think that is your goal.

Split wing would be cool and potentially faster but also more complicated.

Do not think that an extra pedal to active a cable/pulley system would really work. How would you shift gears without upsetting the wing? Maybe default setting should be low drag and activate the high down force with the brake pedal? Thus the wing would move with hydraulic force against a bell crank. And the bell crank would have the motion ratio you would want to achieve the angle of attack. Light brake pressure such as trail braking would have less down force while hard braking would generate higher down force.

Keep us posted, will be interesting to see what you come up with.

Matt Romanowski

Check out Supermodified racing if you want to see some wings that lay down at speed. I believe they just use an air piston (like for a tailgate or hood) to do the movement.

Krokodil

It all seems interesting and exciting until it sticks open and you go off WSIR T1 backwards at 130 mph.

If the folks in F1 can't get it right it is probably best that active aero has no place in amateur racing:



It is this safety issue that encouraged the POC to make active aero against rules - even in the unlimited GT classes.

Cheers,

flink

333pg333

There's no doubt that it would be beneficial (if done well) but as stated, there seems to be very few groups that allow you to run with this sort of setup.

As for a cheap system, I always thought that you could setup a self regulating system with a small shock absober. It would allow the wing to be flattened the faster it goes yet be strong enough to withstand loads during slower corners. It would be a bit of trial and error but perhaps it could work?

As an aside, our dual element rear wing recorded downforce of over 1000kgs on our main straight. Would love to have some sort of DRS setup!

Cory M

both F1 and DTM are using active aero these days, the drag reduction on the straights makes a significant difference

aeromotions sells active wings in the aftermarket that use a control module to adjust the wing automatically, not cheap

as mentioned active aero is banned in most race groups, but if you are after the ultimate laptime in a time trial format and can deal with the added expense and complication it may be worth it to you

that erector set in the first post needs to be moved further away from the airfoil, it would kill the effectiveness of the wing where it is now

JackOlsen

That's an interesting idea. In the case of my home track, though, there is a 130-mph corner where I'd want the wing helping me and a 130-mph straight where I'd benefit from it generating less lift and drag.

My particular airfoil (NACA63-520-M) is the blue line in the following graphs. What my small brain is unable to really see is whether there would be a significant benefit at my speeds and angle of attack to back the wing off 10°.

Lift:



Drag from lift:



Put another way, I'm likely to have to add some apparatus to the uprights to make this thing work. And that will add some drag. While it seems like the trade-off ought to be worth it, this old graphic sticks in my head. Will I be 'spending' too much in drag in order to 'save' anything significant?

stownsen914

Assuming it's legal and you figure out a mechanism of reducing the wing's angle of attack ... yes, I think you'll see benefit. Somewhat anecdotal but related, when I added a larger wing to my 914, I saw my car's top speed drop almost 10 mph at the Pocono long course (where my car reaches nearly terminal velocity). Granted in my case they're two different wings, but reducing a wing's AOA by 10 degrees will significantly reduce drag and should give you a few mph on the top end. Obviously, the most noticeable difference will come on long straights.

Scott

stownsen914

As another poster put it, moving any bulky parts of a movable mechanism away from the underside of the wing (I'd think 6" minimum) would be key to making it worth the effort. Plain old drag wouldn't be the problem here - it's preventing disruption of airflow to the underside of the wing.

JoshuaB

I have an aeromotions dynamic wing one of my track cars (a supra) that I have been quite happy with. Here is a link to the page with a video done my the shop that worked with aeromotions to install and set it up...

http://aeromotions.com/products/by-c...supra-mark-iv/

That make Porsche specific setups...

Seeeu911

Wowsa gorgeous porsche wing.

JackOlsen

Thanks, guys.

The Aeromotions set-up would totally blow my $100 budget. So I sent them an email saying they should just give me one for the publicity. We'll see how that works out.

I still like the idea of a foot pedal and a dead-man safety component more than a box with accelerometers and such. If this sort of system can fail for Michael Schumacher, then I want to keep it as simple as possible in my own car.