That is an interesting issue. The Cayman S pdk at this point can only dyno on a linked awd dyno due to issues with the inter-action between pam and pdk.

 

I hate this thread - mostly because I'm in the process of turning my 78 track rat into a GTS3 car. I didn't have a choice, I tell myself. I love my car, I said.

Well I guess the upside is that this will be my first shot at wheel-to-wheel racing, so the driver is going to be the slowest part of the equation.

 

Eric and Josh have done tons of development work on their cars. Also their car prep is done super well and they both are wheel men for sure. I have yet to see Josh have to wrench on his car at the track. It's ready to roll when he pulls it out of the trailer, every weekend. Meticulous preparation and set up. Therefore they are ruling the roost right now in GTS 3/4 in NASA Mid Atlantic. Can't wait to see what the PDK Caymans will do.

 

Just HAD to go there....

Other words on the street is that somehow EPIC only makes special tunes for two of his customers only. Then there is the infamous "g-tune" that was also spread at some point where a special high power tune kicks in only when the car senses g-forces... soon there will be talk about how the tune will only activate if your fingerprint matches on a steering wheel sensor....

Like Bob says, Ive shared my data, though I don't do it anymore. It doesnt placate the cheater talk and Im giving away free data. Im happy to show anyone my data at the track and overlay theirs if they like. The cheater talk doesnt bother me anymore. Ive heard it all in my time racing. From when I first started, when I would hear people talk endlessly about the winners cheating to now when Im on the other end of that talk.

Ive heard people claim that aero is not worth 4 seconds at Watkins Glen. Ive heard people say there is no way you can win without cheating being the first time you've raced at a particular track.

and the majority of time, all this "talk" comes from people who have cars that arent even fully built to the limit. I say bring it on.

Thanks Mark (and Bob). We will see what happens in NASA-NE this year. There are at least 4-5 new E46 M3s being built. They all cant be cheaters now.... or can they? :P

 

Well said Wonger!

-tony

 

You sound a little defensive Eric

The BMW's do seem to have the advantage wherever they race. Not cheating. Just running to the ruleset. Nothing wrong with that.

One thought for GTS2 might be a lower hp lighter Boxster. With all the aero and suspension it may compete.

The other thought is that at our amateur level horsepower is generally an advantage over handling. Not to say a very very good driver in a low hp car can't out drive a hp jockey. The M3's have to be pretty heavy if I'm not mistaken so a lighter car could be an advantage in the brake zones and corners.

Don't forget the aero. Areo areo areo. That's something that is unfamiliar to many in the PCA ranks outside the GT run groups.

Of course it always costs more money if you want to be a trailblazer.

Oh and all BMW's are cheaters. This is a Porsche centric forum after all.

 

LOL. I mean, how many "pairs" of E46/E90 guys could there be that the street is referring to?

And being that Im the biggest GTS troll there is, you feed the troll a tidbit and he comes out full force

 

Keep at it Jasonn! You'll find others out there doing the same. We got out of GTS because locally we have more competition in ST3, but would have stayed with the same car platform regardless.

 

This thread has turned into more fun than I anticipated. I was asking a sincere question, didn't realize I was inflating the Hindenburg. Dave I should have bought your car- I thought it was expensive at the time but I realize now how rare it is to find a really well dialed in race for sale. You can always get the oats cheaper once they been through the horse.
Phil

 

So in rare form, I read the whole thread....

I've run GTS4 successfully in a 911 for years. I disagree with many of the conclusions made here and I'm rather saddened that some folks seem to be rolling over to the "mighty power" of the BMW. Lets review some comments:

The M3's have an advantage... (Tq, handling, etc..)... If you look at a lot of the GT3 competition the M3's are generally newer compared to the 911's that run. You want a 1970 chassis to complete with a 1995-2000 chassis M3, you damned well better invest a LOT in redesigning suspension, aero, etc.. I don't see many that do this. Advantage? Not really.

My 1970 was VERY competetive untill just a few years ago. I think some of it boiled down to the formula I used though... Low HP, Low weight. This worked fantastically at short tracks. Mid-O, RA, etc.. not so much.

My '01 Cup car with NO development (and I mean NONE, total noob privateer with NO shop support, blown diff, used up clapped out JRZ's ended up in 3rd overall at the NASA Nationals. This was also on a poor tire choice not optimized for the car. Mueller and Bove were only a little bit faster per lap.

What if I had a working diff and shocks, good tires, and the support package a the track that some teams did. Might have been a different story? My crew consisted of me, my 9 year old, and anyone I could sucker into helping me schlep tires.

Now I think we need to look at the development levels of the top cars... I do believe it is cheaper to upgrade the BMW's. Can you imagine finding a good Porsche motor in a junkyard for $1000? They do it all the time... Components and upgrades on the BMW's are more readily available and cheaper which means with a fixed investment, the BMW will have more applied to it.

So if you're going to commit to running a podium Porsche against the BMW's in NASA you better expect to spend more than they do to get there.

 

Whoa whoa, back up mate. Nobody is accusing you of anything! I forget who's suspected of using this tune, but it wasn't you. It seemed generally accepted within the midwest GTS3 paddock that this is happening. Definitely seems technically feasible. Unlikely it could ever be caught (via data loggers or otherwise) so yeah I'm disillusioned with GTS.

 

Want Eric's head to really explode? Discuss what a "natural" gts2 or gts3 car should be.

 

Wong-er: Haters are gonna Hate.

If he was alone on the podium then there'd be suspicion. But there are all sorts of cars he battles with and none are burning down the straights (relative to their competition.) The build of that car and any race car is a long road/receipt that in BMW's case has many cost effective alternatives that may net similar results. When Wonger first built the car he was slower than the E36's at Mid-OH, I was there... He finessed the car, mainly set-up and slowly made his way through the field over the course of a year.

Back to the GTS2 point. I think that these are definitely momentum cars for a majority of the tracks today and also the Delta of speed from GTS2 to GTS 4-5 cars. That said, Once I loaded my E36 with Aero I was nearly WOT at all times through Rd Atlanta. The car was Glued. Your suspension set-up changes as a result too but the best upgrades I did to that car was a Proper Race Diff and Aero. = Laying down power early and keeping momentum through corners.

 

I also think Porsche can do well but you will have to develop it. josh and then Eric spent tons of time on E46, others as well. Plus a lot used the same shop and I'm sure shared data to help out those who are starting out. Most Porsche folks I've met we're building cars for PCA and weren't maxed out for GTS. I bet a fully done up late 911 or Boxster/Cayman would do great. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time and money to get to the front.

 

What about racing a GTA2 Cup with NASA? How does it compare to Racing with PCA. Looking for more "local" options.