The Saleen is being raced right now.

 

Just make the stroke ~53% of its current length and install pneumatic valve springs, right?

Look out Ferrari, look out BMW.

 

Yes it is. There are how many of those on the road owned by customers? The car is manufactured by a company that has never before made a supercar, and it isn't exactly competitive with the 550 Maranello GTS cars and the Corvette C5R's. Sure, a lot of that has to do with restricitions that were imposed when...Saleen didn't produce enough road going cars.

In terms of price and potential, the S7 is a competitor to the CGT, but in reality, I don't see it as an equal. The CGT should be comparable to the Enzo and SLR, neither of which is currently racing. My point being, the competition's cars that aren't currently racing shouldn't have any bearing on the reputation of the CGT because Porsche chose not to race it. That certainly hasn't stopped Enzo buyers and, according to Mercedes, orders are just fine for the SLR.

The Pagani Zonda is also a competitor to the CGT. It has a similar price and the performance should be quite close as well. The Zonda is produced in far less numbers than what Porsche is proposing for the CGT and there are currently only a few Zonda race cars in the world. One of those cars broke at Le Mans w/in the first hour. This has apparently not hurt Pagani's sales at all.

And I keep hearing this rumor that the CGT will be racing in 2004 anyway...

Greg A

edited to add the Zonda.

 

I would like to see Porsche get back to big time racing as much as anyone. In the old days, Porsche was run by a bunch of racers at heart. They were even smaller than today but were winning Le-Mans outright, doing CanAM and even tried an Indy car.
But who is running the company now? None other than Wendelin Wunderkind a bean counter who has made the company the most profitable car company in the world. He can honestly say "what have I done wrong?" The people who run the company and hold stock (not many) have no reason to change the way things are going. We on the bottom are sad, but we still buy the cars!

 

I've posted my sad thoughts on Porsche's absence from topflight racing numerous times before, so I won't drone on. But I will second someone else's statement above that it's likely to get worse before it gets better, both in terms of an even longer absence from racing and in terms of when they want to return to topflight racing they are going to have to spend a ton of money to perform near the top with other marques. A successful return to topflight racing is far from an automatic event even when they do decide to return.

In a couple of UK magazine interviews last year, Messrs. Singer and Ampferer spoke reticently about some of the hurdles Porsche must clear in order to return to top flight racing ...

1. most of the high level race engineers have departed Porsche (for Mercedes, Audi and elsewhere), along with their knowledge and successful experience

2. they will need to undertake significant hirings to fully staff a top flight race department

3. Singer is retiring shortly

4. they will have to expend substantial financial resources to develop or purchase high level race technologies relating to race gearboxes, direct injection fuel delivery, and quick-change modular parts for fast repairs during races (a la the Audi complete rear-end swap fix to cure any drive train problems during a race (although the ACO is reportedly in the process of closing the loophole that permits this)).

Moreover, Wiedeking says that the decision not to return to racing is a financial one. In the same breath, he repeatedly touts Porsche's strong bottom line and industry-leading profitability being insulated from the currency disparity between the dollar and the Euro, but implicit in this point is the fact that Porsche's US currency hedging is good for only a 3-4 year period, afterwhich if the dollar doesn't rebound then Porsche will have to look elsewhere to severely cut costs. Surely that would put any racing development plans in the cost-cutting cross-hairs. Anybody wanna bet that if the dollar doesn't rebound in the next two years Porsche will have an unbroken string of about 9 years without any top-flight racing?

Again, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better and they will need a very large partner/sponsor to pull off a successful return IF they ever do return.

 

Porsche have lost their way for the moment with respect to racing. They decided to invest in the (American invented) SUV market prompted by success of other manufacturers- probably BMW X5 was influential in this - which meant they couldn't spend the money in racing. But as someone else has observed, if they are now investing in production of the Carrera GT, this should be backed up by some factory sponsored racing of the Carrera GT. Meantime privateers do enter GT3's and GT3R's to keep the flag flying.....it seems a long time since those famous LeMans and other endurance race victories.
Maybe you can't be a bean counter and also have the instinct to be the best in motorsport. At least we the enthusiastic supporters have had some benefit from running aircooled 911 roadcars that had a racing bloodline.

 

Success at PAG is currently measured at the bottom line not at the finish line. Seems American rather than German.

There was a day when an engineer looked to create an innovative successful product not necessarily the most profitable one.

Finally you can say all you want about how Porsche is independent and how this allows them to "do their thing" but consider at the time when Piech wanted Audi to be successful in racing Porsche "conveniently" dropped out and now the mighty VW group wants the Bently to shine so still Porsche has excuses. Do you think that perhaps the money paid to the Porsche Design department for the Toureg had anything to do with it? How many have seen the thread "finally a real sports car" about the planned VW roadster, wonder who designed it?

Don't get me wrong I really enjoy my cars but statements like "we won't get back into racing cause we might lose" drive me nuts when the attitude returns so that the statement becomes "we're getting back into racing because we might win and if we don't we're going to keep after it till we do" then we'll see them back where they belong in, victory lane.

 

Al my friend, I could not agree with you more about the VW Group making Bentley a big priority. Hell, who do you think built the damn cars for Audi before Bentley colors went on ??


Theo

 

Bean-counters? Close. Porsche is run by a bunch of "suits" with MBAs that would probably be just as happy making and selling refrigerators.

Porsche used to be run by people with passion who believed that racing sold cars and winning at racing sold a lot more cars. Now it is run by people who think an upscale image rather than a racing image sells cars.

Racing is probably something they feel they are obligated to do, but that it's a PITA.

Way back when the Porsche family decided the company should be free of nepotism. I think the company should do a 180 and put family back at the helm and ditch the suits.

 

Norbert Singer retires on the 31st July 2003. His farewell dinner this week. I know one US based rennlister will be attending.
Despite all the stuff which has been said and written in various magazines and publications Porsche clearly stated way back in 2000 that they did not believe they would be returning to factory racing at least until 2005. This obviously has not changed and stories written around rumours and wishful thinking creates threads like these. We simply have to wait. 911 and Boxster sales have reduced quite markedly. In the local press it has been reported that Porsche will cut back production of both these model production lines even further than originally planned. I have seen nothing in the German press in the three German speaking nations about a V6 Cayenne either. The Carrera GTs will end up in the grasp of the seriously wealthy who are more interested in their luxury yachts and golf courses than motor racing unless they can get into the pits for a photo shoot. Most will end up in Monte Carlo, St Tropez, Miami and Southern California. If you want to see GT-1s go to St Tropez.
Ferrari have a very different attitude towards their product owners and sellers of merchandise. They support them and do not attempt to take them to court. This tends to increase support of their product whether an individual can afford it or not.
All I can advise based on what I know is to reconcile yourselves to the fact that Porsche is a long way from returning to front line factory racing. I would not be surprised if they did not ever again. Why would they, the most profitable without racing. I hope they do but I await to be pleasantly surprised.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Adrian,

Maybe you didn't hear about this, but Ferrari did everything in their power to prevent U.S. customers from importing Euro 360's. Ferrari lost. I think you are mistaken about Ferrari's attitude toward their product owners.

Greg A

 

I was actually talking about mechandising, internet sites, fan clubs and what they do for the Ferrari purchaser. The individual case like the one you speak of which I did not know about ( I know a person who was exporting them to the USA though. He never mentioned anything and these 360s went to Texas). I am sure that it was a fear of American liability laws more than anything else. There is of course two sides to a story so I still stand by my comments but I will remove the USA from the field of play. In the Rest of the World, Ferrari looks after is customers and its fans to a much higher level than Porsche which is very sad for a Porsche enthusiast like myself and one who will never own a Ferrari. A visit to a race meeting like LeMans shows the differences very well. Even a visit to motorshows around Europe.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Geo,

Couldn't agree more.

 

I would not rely on the family members to do things any differently. Who are the major shareholders? How many family members sit on the supervisory board?
We justhave to wait for a change of heart and mind and I certainly will not be holding my breath. The Touareg is entered in the next Paris-Dakar by the way.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Thanks for sharing the info, Adrian. Singer's retirement, while surely a happy and deserved day for the man and his family, is a very sad development for Porsche and its supporters.