Race car driver deaths article
#1
Rennlist Member
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Race car driver deaths article
I have not seen this posted here yet, it's an awesome article by the two Dr. Jims whom most of us know. Really timely!
http://blog.parathyroid.com/race-car...racing-deaths/
http://blog.parathyroid.com/race-car...racing-deaths/
#3
Rennlist Member
Indeed. We share a great deal of performance and technical info here. A thorough understanding of the safety aspects needs to continue to head the list of topics.
Thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of Allan Simonsen. Sad day.
Thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of Allan Simonsen. Sad day.
#4
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That is a great article, thanks!
As I finished reading it, I wondered, is going as fast as we go really necessary to have a good time? Is the ego boost we achieve by tempting fate, and balancing skill against danger, ever really worth the risk?
It's a complicated issue, because putting ourselves in significant danger is a big part of both making a living, and in bad times, defending our selves or homelands. But being prepared to face that danger is a large part of our culture, intertwined with our perceptions of when a man is a man, and what it means to be one.
In sports, we repurpose this energy, and control it's level, venting it on one hand and shaping and honing it on another. Ultimately, it seems quite natural that we are attracted to the danger specifically in many sports. It's not the whole attraction of course, but a significant facet.
That leaves a blunt answer that yes, some people have to die, or be maimed, for racing to be what it is to us.
But there is a whole other side of things, that we usually think of as "kid stuff" in some way, that offers everything but lacks the bulk of the risk. Anyone who has started down the path of upgrading a car's power, or stepping up to more and more powerful vehicles will admit that the thrill of the extra power and speed fades quickly, inviting another step up. It's a never ending chase, like a drug addiction, still looking for that "hit", even though the danger levels are now far, far, higher.
There is an alternative though, when you give up chasing that higher high, you can focus on enjoying the more mental, rather than emotional, side of driving. Yes, it takes work, and people will not talk about how big your ***** are. But the reality is that for most video you see that makes you think a guy has huge *****, he's kinda bored, wishing he had "just a few hundred more" horsepower, to get that edge back!
By focusing on yourself, and your driving, rather than the car, and the g-forces, you can enjoy an everlasting challenge that is quiet, but less expensive, less dangerous, more educational and still builds plenty of character.
Now, of course some people just plain crave power, almost as an end unto itself. Pushing against the earth, against inertia, with a crazed intensity just feels right to them. Too much, will always be just enough. It's important to be very clear on what your motivations are, to avoid regret, should things go wrong. Not many people practice visualizing how it will feel to wake up to the news that you're paralyzed, and horrifically burnt as well, when the last thing you remember is how awesome it is to finally have a GT2.
As I finished reading it, I wondered, is going as fast as we go really necessary to have a good time? Is the ego boost we achieve by tempting fate, and balancing skill against danger, ever really worth the risk?
It's a complicated issue, because putting ourselves in significant danger is a big part of both making a living, and in bad times, defending our selves or homelands. But being prepared to face that danger is a large part of our culture, intertwined with our perceptions of when a man is a man, and what it means to be one.
In sports, we repurpose this energy, and control it's level, venting it on one hand and shaping and honing it on another. Ultimately, it seems quite natural that we are attracted to the danger specifically in many sports. It's not the whole attraction of course, but a significant facet.
That leaves a blunt answer that yes, some people have to die, or be maimed, for racing to be what it is to us.
But there is a whole other side of things, that we usually think of as "kid stuff" in some way, that offers everything but lacks the bulk of the risk. Anyone who has started down the path of upgrading a car's power, or stepping up to more and more powerful vehicles will admit that the thrill of the extra power and speed fades quickly, inviting another step up. It's a never ending chase, like a drug addiction, still looking for that "hit", even though the danger levels are now far, far, higher.
There is an alternative though, when you give up chasing that higher high, you can focus on enjoying the more mental, rather than emotional, side of driving. Yes, it takes work, and people will not talk about how big your ***** are. But the reality is that for most video you see that makes you think a guy has huge *****, he's kinda bored, wishing he had "just a few hundred more" horsepower, to get that edge back!
By focusing on yourself, and your driving, rather than the car, and the g-forces, you can enjoy an everlasting challenge that is quiet, but less expensive, less dangerous, more educational and still builds plenty of character.
Now, of course some people just plain crave power, almost as an end unto itself. Pushing against the earth, against inertia, with a crazed intensity just feels right to them. Too much, will always be just enough. It's important to be very clear on what your motivations are, to avoid regret, should things go wrong. Not many people practice visualizing how it will feel to wake up to the news that you're paralyzed, and horrifically burnt as well, when the last thing you remember is how awesome it is to finally have a GT2.
#7
Three Wheelin'
Interesting, but little new clinical information for me. I have lost several acquaintances as a part of this "hobby" during the past 25 years.
One thing I have always been curious about but never tracked down is the relationship between race physical EKGs and racing. I wonder what is really known clinically that drives the sanctioning bodies to their requirements for EKG.
I once asked the medical director for a well-known and very large sanctioning body (he is a surgeon) and he did not know. He is well-trained and well-informed and has been at it as a med director and racer for a long time. He also graduated from a pretty good school. But he did not know, which did not surprise me.
Could be more driven by legal considerations than clinical strength of evidence. And in any case, it is not a catch all.
For example, my wife and the wives of several of my friends share our cars but don't race. These cars have high performance potential (say, e.g., GT2R, ~350 - 400 bhp on 1900 pounds). The wives drive them to within a few percentage points of their full potential, usually just a tad slower than us. Arguably in as stressful or perhaps more stressful open passing DE groups with twice as many cars (and a broader range of "behaviors and experience). Should they have racing physicals and EKGs?
Or take my friend, a DE driver and instructor that doesn't race. Probably between 10 and 20 years of experience and between 40 and 50 years old... maybe a little older. We get to talking about life in general, and cardiology comes up. He sees one every six months or so. Heart murmur if I recall correctly. I asked him what kinds of conversations he had with his doctor about DE driving. The answer: none.
Anyway, I am curious about the relationship between EKG as a "screening tool," and racing (and age since typically it is required over a certain age). May have to track that down. Meanwhile I will continue to recommend that folks at least have conversations with their HCP's about this stressful hobby of ours. And I imagine that the paperwork for a racing physical can be a conversation aid, even for those who never go wheel-to-wheel.
One thing I have always been curious about but never tracked down is the relationship between race physical EKGs and racing. I wonder what is really known clinically that drives the sanctioning bodies to their requirements for EKG.
I once asked the medical director for a well-known and very large sanctioning body (he is a surgeon) and he did not know. He is well-trained and well-informed and has been at it as a med director and racer for a long time. He also graduated from a pretty good school. But he did not know, which did not surprise me.
Could be more driven by legal considerations than clinical strength of evidence. And in any case, it is not a catch all.
For example, my wife and the wives of several of my friends share our cars but don't race. These cars have high performance potential (say, e.g., GT2R, ~350 - 400 bhp on 1900 pounds). The wives drive them to within a few percentage points of their full potential, usually just a tad slower than us. Arguably in as stressful or perhaps more stressful open passing DE groups with twice as many cars (and a broader range of "behaviors and experience). Should they have racing physicals and EKGs?
Or take my friend, a DE driver and instructor that doesn't race. Probably between 10 and 20 years of experience and between 40 and 50 years old... maybe a little older. We get to talking about life in general, and cardiology comes up. He sees one every six months or so. Heart murmur if I recall correctly. I asked him what kinds of conversations he had with his doctor about DE driving. The answer: none.
Anyway, I am curious about the relationship between EKG as a "screening tool," and racing (and age since typically it is required over a certain age). May have to track that down. Meanwhile I will continue to recommend that folks at least have conversations with their HCP's about this stressful hobby of ours. And I imagine that the paperwork for a racing physical can be a conversation aid, even for those who never go wheel-to-wheel.
Last edited by Mahler9th; 06-24-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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#8
Rennlist Member
Interesting article, and well written. I wish there were a few more pearls of wisdom/ideas on how to prevent these things, but what was in it was interesting! It's also interesting how much they minimize fire. This may be a bigger issue at a club race level of preparation than pro racing, though.
To Cheyenne - the risk managment issue played into my decision to run a lower powered Spec car. When you are going 140+, the crash lasts a long time!
To Cheyenne - the risk managment issue played into my decision to run a lower powered Spec car. When you are going 140+, the crash lasts a long time!
#9
Rennlist Member
So harness, hans, halo-seats, and roll-cage/bar help, but full-on Nomex not so much (as fire-deaths have been all but eliminated)? I wonder how much is heart-attack risk increased by Nomex layers in a hot car, on a hot track?
#11
Rennlist Member
As a student of the sport I like insights like this. I think we need to study and understand what happens so we can progress. Very important stuff, even if unpleasant.
#12
Race Car
Great Read, thanks for posting!
I guess, statistically deaths by Fire have gone way down over the years. Especially in street cars,
But they still scare me a lot more than sudden impacts.
I guess, statistically deaths by Fire have gone way down over the years. Especially in street cars,
But they still scare me a lot more than sudden impacts.
#13
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#14
Rennlist Member
"Of course it does not go unnoticed that the armco was repaired in front of the tree and the race continued. Could there have been a second death at that turn?"
What's being suggested...that the race should have been stopped?
What's being suggested...that the race should have been stopped?
#15
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Interesting, but little new clinical information for me. I have lost several acquaintances as a part of this "hobby" during the past 25 years.
One thing I have always been curious about but never tracked down is the relationship between race physical EKGs and racing. I wonder what is really known clinically that drives the sanctioning bodies to their requirements for EKG.
I once asked the medical director for a well-known and very large sanctioning body (he is a surgeon) and he did not know. He is well-trained and well-informed and has been at it as a med director and racer for a long time. He also graduated from a pretty good school. But he did not know, which did not surprise me.
Could be more driven by legal considerations than clinical strength of evidence. And in any case, it is not a catch all.
For example, my wife and the wives of several of my friends share our cars but don't race. These cars have high performance potential (say, e.g., GT2R, ~350 - 400 bhp on 1900 pounds). The wives drive them to within a few percentage points of their full potential, usually just a tad slower than us. Arguably in as stressful or perhaps more stressful open passing DE groups with twice as many cars (and a broader range of "behaviors and experience). Should they have racing physicals and EKGs?
Or take my friend, a DE driver and instructor that doesn't race. Probably between 10 and 20 years of experience and between 40 and 50 years old... maybe a little older. We get to talking about life in general, and cardiology comes up. He sees one every six months or so. Heart murmur if I recall correctly. I asked him what kinds of conversations he had with his doctor about DE driving. The answer: none.
Anyway, I am curious about the relationship between EKG as a "screening tool," and racing (and age since typically it is required over a certain age). May have to track that down. Meanwhile I will continue to recommend that folks at least have conversations with their HCP's about this stressful hobby of ours. And I imagine that the paperwork for a racing physical can be a conversation aid, even for those who never go wheel-to-wheel.
One thing I have always been curious about but never tracked down is the relationship between race physical EKGs and racing. I wonder what is really known clinically that drives the sanctioning bodies to their requirements for EKG.
I once asked the medical director for a well-known and very large sanctioning body (he is a surgeon) and he did not know. He is well-trained and well-informed and has been at it as a med director and racer for a long time. He also graduated from a pretty good school. But he did not know, which did not surprise me.
Could be more driven by legal considerations than clinical strength of evidence. And in any case, it is not a catch all.
For example, my wife and the wives of several of my friends share our cars but don't race. These cars have high performance potential (say, e.g., GT2R, ~350 - 400 bhp on 1900 pounds). The wives drive them to within a few percentage points of their full potential, usually just a tad slower than us. Arguably in as stressful or perhaps more stressful open passing DE groups with twice as many cars (and a broader range of "behaviors and experience). Should they have racing physicals and EKGs?
Or take my friend, a DE driver and instructor that doesn't race. Probably between 10 and 20 years of experience and between 40 and 50 years old... maybe a little older. We get to talking about life in general, and cardiology comes up. He sees one every six months or so. Heart murmur if I recall correctly. I asked him what kinds of conversations he had with his doctor about DE driving. The answer: none.
Anyway, I am curious about the relationship between EKG as a "screening tool," and racing (and age since typically it is required over a certain age). May have to track that down. Meanwhile I will continue to recommend that folks at least have conversations with their HCP's about this stressful hobby of ours. And I imagine that the paperwork for a racing physical can be a conversation aid, even for those who never go wheel-to-wheel.