I sure love Watkins Glen...
05-01-2017, 11:21 AM
#77
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It's also best to utilize the full width of the road, unless there is a compelling reason not to. No reason not to, in this case.
Turn 6 is unusual in the fact that the camber gain, as you cross the centerline of the track and approach the apex, gets MUCH better than at any turn in depth.
So, this is a "faith" corner, which requires this knowledge in order to allow for a slightly quicker, broader and more open entry radius, lest you try and carry so much speed that you run wide at the apex curbing AREA.
If you look at a Google Earth view and study the track DWG, you see how much more acute this turn is than many others, including the previous turn.
The key is first to optimize exit, THEN plot the geometry BACK from that exit point THROUGH the apex AREA, which spans several car lengths.
The dead giveaway of a late turn-in is a LATE, shorter apex area. The dead giveaway of an early turn in is an early intersection (and a short one) with the apex curbing and a DELAY in progression to WOT. You should intersect the apex area while your heading is aimed directly at the worker station located at the exit of the turn.
So, the key is balance and an examination of gSum throughout the brake zone and full radius of the car's trajectory through Turn 6.
We can talk all we want, but it's pushing the pedals, turning the wheel, measuring (and committing to memory intimate information about the topography) that will allow you to determine the correct geometry through this turn.
There is a "bald spot" past the drain cover that is a good permanent marker to index the position of your right shoulder to turn in...
05-01-2017, 11:59 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
It's best to ignore and not index any control inputs off temporary or non permanent markers.
It's also best to utilize the full width of the road, unless there is a compelling reason not to. No reason not to, in this case.
Turn 6 is unusual in the fact that the camber gain, as you cross the centerline of the track and approach the apex, gets MUCH better than at any turn in depth.
So, this is a "faith" corner, which requires this knowledge in order to allow for a slightly quicker, broader and more open entry radius, lest you try and carry so much speed that you run wide at the apex curbing AREA.
If you look at a Google Earth view and study the track DWG, you see how much more acute this turn is than many others, including the previous turn.
The key is first to optimize exit, THEN plot the geometry BACK from that exit point THROUGH the apex AREA, which spans several car lengths.
The dead giveaway of a late turn-in is a LATE, shorter apex area. The dead giveaway of an early turn in is an early intersection (and a short one) with the apex curbing and a DELAY in progression to WOT. You should intersect the apex area while your heading is aimed directly at the worker station located at the exit of the turn.
So, the key is balance and an examination of gSum throughout the brake zone and full radius of the car's trajectory through Turn 6.
We can talk all we want, but it's pushing the pedals, turning the wheel, measuring (and committing to memory intimate information about the topography) that will allow you to determine the correct geometry through this turn.
There is a "bald spot" past the drain cover that is a good permanent marker to index the position of your right shoulder to turn in...
It's also best to utilize the full width of the road, unless there is a compelling reason not to. No reason not to, in this case.
Turn 6 is unusual in the fact that the camber gain, as you cross the centerline of the track and approach the apex, gets MUCH better than at any turn in depth.
So, this is a "faith" corner, which requires this knowledge in order to allow for a slightly quicker, broader and more open entry radius, lest you try and carry so much speed that you run wide at the apex curbing AREA.
If you look at a Google Earth view and study the track DWG, you see how much more acute this turn is than many others, including the previous turn.
The key is first to optimize exit, THEN plot the geometry BACK from that exit point THROUGH the apex AREA, which spans several car lengths.
The dead giveaway of a late turn-in is a LATE, shorter apex area. The dead giveaway of an early turn in is an early intersection (and a short one) with the apex curbing and a DELAY in progression to WOT. You should intersect the apex area while your heading is aimed directly at the worker station located at the exit of the turn.
So, the key is balance and an examination of gSum throughout the brake zone and full radius of the car's trajectory through Turn 6.
We can talk all we want, but it's pushing the pedals, turning the wheel, measuring (and committing to memory intimate information about the topography) that will allow you to determine the correct geometry through this turn.
There is a "bald spot" past the drain cover that is a good permanent marker to index the position of your right shoulder to turn in...
05-01-2017, 03:22 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Lol as I said, ignore all cones.
6 and 9 are weird in that they often work better by not being all the way drivers right at initial turn in, due to less favorable camber out there.
I'll comment on the video in a bit when I get a better internet connection
6 and 9 are weird in that they often work better by not being all the way drivers right at initial turn in, due to less favorable camber out there.
I'll comment on the video in a bit when I get a better internet connection
05-01-2017, 04:33 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK on the video, corner by corner:
-1 nice!
-Upshift to 4th later, close to turn in for 2 (better launch into the Esses + the upshift will aid turn in for 2)
-More gas all the way through Esses...you need to better fight gravity here!
-Bus stop more gas after the 1st rumble strip...you're nearly coasting all the way through here...remember, you're still going uphill all the way to the crest as you start to dive down in 5. Also, more gas after last rumble strip...you still have plenty of real estate to lift for 5
-5 more gas all the way through here...at least 50% throttle...remember, this is the most beneficial camber on this track...faster than it looks
-6 get to that apex curbing sooner & hold it longer...like 5, all the best camber is down low along the white line
-9 too far driver's right at turn in...hear all that squealing? That's you understeering on the off camber portion...only go maybe 3/4 drivers right and initiate gradual turn in a tiny bit sooner, on camber
-Upshift to 4th gear just before 10 (just like iinto 2, you'll pick up exit speed from 9 and it will aid turn in for 10)
-Get down to the apex of 10 sooner and hold it longer (sound familiar?)
-11 looks nice!
-1 nice!
-Upshift to 4th later, close to turn in for 2 (better launch into the Esses + the upshift will aid turn in for 2)
-More gas all the way through Esses...you need to better fight gravity here!
-Bus stop more gas after the 1st rumble strip...you're nearly coasting all the way through here...remember, you're still going uphill all the way to the crest as you start to dive down in 5. Also, more gas after last rumble strip...you still have plenty of real estate to lift for 5
-5 more gas all the way through here...at least 50% throttle...remember, this is the most beneficial camber on this track...faster than it looks
-6 get to that apex curbing sooner & hold it longer...like 5, all the best camber is down low along the white line
-9 too far driver's right at turn in...hear all that squealing? That's you understeering on the off camber portion...only go maybe 3/4 drivers right and initiate gradual turn in a tiny bit sooner, on camber
-Upshift to 4th gear just before 10 (just like iinto 2, you'll pick up exit speed from 9 and it will aid turn in for 10)
-Get down to the apex of 10 sooner and hold it longer (sound familiar?)
-11 looks nice!
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 05-01-2017 at 05:07 PM.
05-01-2017, 09:20 PM
#85
Hi, ran WGI this weekend, and I know I'm leaving a lot on the table (bus stop, climbing esses, turn 10), looking for constructive criticism on my driving:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLJWd5L0SVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLJWd5L0SVM
05-01-2017, 09:23 PM
#86
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Nice video, Bill. I see a LOT of room for improvement. Let's get that throttle and brake working, first.
__________________
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
05-01-2017, 10:28 PM
#87
Rennlist Member
I'm as old as Tremper and did my second SCCA school @ WGI in 1968. Here's what I think Veloce Raptor is talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4cEhUflZkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4cEhUflZkA
Since you two have been going to the Glen, since before I could legally drive.
How much has changed?
Cars , track and drivers?
05-02-2017, 10:04 AM
#88
OK on the video, corner by corner:
-1 nice!
-Upshift to 4th later, close to turn in for 2 (better launch into the Esses + the upshift will aid turn in for 2)
-More gas all the way through Esses...you need to better fight gravity here!
-Bus stop more gas after the 1st rumble strip...you're nearly coasting all the way through here...remember, you're still going uphill all the way to the crest as you start to dive down in 5. Also, more gas after last rumble strip...you still have plenty of real estate to lift for 5
-5 more gas all the way through here...at least 50% throttle...remember, this is the most beneficial camber on this track...faster than it looks
-6 get to that apex curbing sooner & hold it longer...like 5, all the best camber is down low along the white line
-9 too far driver's right at turn in...hear all that squealing? That's you understeering on the off camber portion...only go maybe 3/4 drivers right and initiate gradual turn in a tiny bit sooner, on camber
-Upshift to 4th gear just before 10 (just like iinto 2, you'll pick up exit speed from 9 and it will aid turn in for 10)
-Get down to the apex of 10 sooner and hold it longer (sound familiar?)
-11 looks nice!
-1 nice!
-Upshift to 4th later, close to turn in for 2 (better launch into the Esses + the upshift will aid turn in for 2)
-More gas all the way through Esses...you need to better fight gravity here!
-Bus stop more gas after the 1st rumble strip...you're nearly coasting all the way through here...remember, you're still going uphill all the way to the crest as you start to dive down in 5. Also, more gas after last rumble strip...you still have plenty of real estate to lift for 5
-5 more gas all the way through here...at least 50% throttle...remember, this is the most beneficial camber on this track...faster than it looks
-6 get to that apex curbing sooner & hold it longer...like 5, all the best camber is down low along the white line
-9 too far driver's right at turn in...hear all that squealing? That's you understeering on the off camber portion...only go maybe 3/4 drivers right and initiate gradual turn in a tiny bit sooner, on camber
-Upshift to 4th gear just before 10 (just like iinto 2, you'll pick up exit speed from 9 and it will aid turn in for 10)
-Get down to the apex of 10 sooner and hold it longer (sound familiar?)
-11 looks nice!
05-02-2017, 10:37 AM
#89
Racer
Thru the eighties the track was in receivership and run by Corning Corp...very basic track, no amenities like running water and sewer....The biggest change to the track was in 1992 with the addition of the evil "bus stop". Once International Speed Corp bought the facility in early nineties vast improvement to the infrastructure occurred. Media center, new timing tower, running water, sewer system..but the track surface remained the same except for some corner repair..cement patches. BUT in 2016, the "magic " surface was installed..first repaving of the entire facility in my memory..topped off with a new guard blg at Gate #2....the place has always been first class, but now it is world class..
05-02-2017, 10:45 AM
#90
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Thru the eighties the track was in receivership and run by Corning Corp...very basic track, no amenities like running water and sewer....The biggest change to the track was in 1992 with the addition of the evil "bus stop". Once International Speed Corp bought the facility in early nineties vast improvement to the infrastructure occurred. Media center, new timing tower, running water, sewer system..but the track surface remained the same except for some corner repair..cement patches. BUT in 2016, the "magic " surface was installed..first repaving of the entire facility in my memory..topped off with a new guard blg at Gate #2....the place has always been first class, but now it is world class..
You are absolutely right. The ISC ownership has been good and the $9.5 million they spent over the 2015-2016 off-season has lifted it to another level.