LuigiVampa

Is there a difference between behind extremely competitive and being a jerk?

Can you be a champion and still be a "good sport" or a gentlemen?

I just finished watching Senna (the movie) for the third or fourth time. Even though I own the DVD I found myself watching it again when it was on TV. Was Senna extremely competitive or was he a bit of a jerk? Was Prost a bit of a jerk for "maybe" trying to crash out Senna 1989 Japanese GP?

Was Schumacher a bit of a jerk, well, all of the time?

Was Niki Lauda a bit of a jerk?

Is Vettel becoming a bit of a jerk?

Or are all these people just very competitive and they "do what it takes" to win?

I don't think it is a debate about a single incident but a mindset about what a drive is willing to do.

Sterling Moss used to wave as he passed a competitor. Is there still a place for drivers like this or is being a gentlemen and being a fierce competitor incompatible?

multi21

Oh, this still happens in modern day F1. I remember Alonso waiving (although the pictures show it was found to be a single digit finger instead of the entire hand) to Schumacher at Suzuka in 2006 after Michael was leading the race and his engine blew up. I've always said, Alonso is all class and a true gentleman racer.

analogmike

Yes Senna, and later Schumacher were jerks. Senna seems to have started it, and now everyone thinks you can be an ******* and get away with it, or even need to be to be champion. They should have penalized those moves that took out the competition back then and it would have ended.

mklaskin

Very, very, fine line between being ultra selfish and being a jerk in order to be Champion. Although Senna was a fine film, I think it portrayed Prost in an inaccurate light. Prost was absolutely correct when he told the reporter that it was his corner.

fleadh

You're only a jerk if you don't win.

-mike

ltc

Alonso did "wave" to Petrov at the end of the race in Abu Dhabi IIRC.

Cheyenne

I think it's something well worth thinking and talking about.

I believe that while it may be easier to be a jerk and be a champion, it's possible and honorable to walk the fine line of taking what's yours, never taking what's not yours, and caring just as much about your fellow competitors as you do about your self and your own success.

How much more fun is it to be champion and know that nobody could truthfully say you did something underhanded in any way to beat them?

BostonDMD

Although much more rare, I think the gentleman champions still exist.......

hacker-pschorr

Is this thread limited to F1? If not just look at the current Indy series. Drivers like Franchitti and Kanaan.

TexasRider

In F1 I have always heard that Schumacher was a good guy and a gentlemen off the track. Not a jerk anyway . I cant say as I never met him .

I am sure these guys get under each others skin just being around each other all the time. And having to put up with a lot of other things too besides going 200 mph , could set most of us off here and there. Especially in the heat of the moment or race. Sure they get paid well to do it, but there are just those bad moments .

I did meet both Rick Mears and Danny Sullivan . They seemed darn good guys and you would want to hang out with them . No question they were both champions and very competitive inside too . I am sure they had some moments at some time or another , but that is Ok wiht me.

LuigiVampa

I didn't mean to limit the question to F1. Because I was watching Senna I guess I framed it that way.

aero997c2s

Since someone mentioned Kanaan I'll go ahead and leave this here.. Pre race at the Baltimore Grand prix a year ago I walked passed him and asked if I could get a picture, he gladly threw his arm up on my shoulder and snapped a quick pic. From my experience with him, seemed like a great guy.

I only had to watch Senna once to think he had to of been a jerk, but when you consider all the money/work he did for the under privileged back in Brasil it sure seems like he just did whatever it took to win.

multi21

There is probably no bigger Schumacher fan on RL than me and I recognize that he was no angel on the track. I accept all the warts and all as he was driven to win, but those warts were as a result of winning at all costs which is not acceptable.

Senna was Schumacher's idol and mimicked what he saw Senna do and often get away with to win during the old guard version of F1 and is no longer tolerated today.

So Schumacher was no gentleman racer, but off track he was and continues to be a huge philanthropist. He has donated a small fortune to build schools, hospitals and other infrastructure in poor areas of Africa, Eastern Europe and South America. During the Tsunami of Christmas 2004, he alone donated $10,000,000 to relief efforts. BTW, these gifts were not announced during a press conference to brag about his donations, but rather discovered by German reporters when researching his records. His on and off track persona is what influences me being a big fan.

TexasRider

^^^^^

I did not mean Schumi could not be tough on the track . Nor did I mean just about his donations and that .

What I had heard before was that he treated almost everyone with respect and with dignity and was genuinely nice to most of them . I dont know how they dont slap some reporters around sometime , but he even got good grades from almost all of them too for the same reasons.

How the drivers treat each other could have a lot of different reasons from I hate his whining, I hate his winning, I hate his women , I hate his check ......... to I want to be him .

I respected Micheals work back at MB and I was pizzed at Hamilton for his comments on Schumi . But Hammy is a better guy today . Micheal was right behind Senna and he knows what can, and did happen .

So while I am a huge Senna fan, I think Micheal has set the standard in a lot more ways.

multi21

Tex, I didn't take it that way either. But I did hear the same stories you did that he treated everyone at the factory the same from the CEO to the janitor. Never heard a bad word from anyone about him off track