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Dry Sump Kit for M96 and M97 engines

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Old 05-25-2013, 10:05 AM   #16
txhokie4life
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Is it main bearings that are failing or #6 rod bearing?

I've only seen a pair of #6 rod bearing failures -- but Ive only seen
a dozen or so M96's on the surgery table.

Mike
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #17
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I have gone very far down the rabbit's hole with a dry sump system for the m97 in my Cayman. I am nearly done. Just a few details to work out. I can offer this as a kit for sale if anyone is interested. I will even include a template for where to mount the tank. I did this to have a more reliable DE car but I can sell a few kits to recover R&D costs.

Thanks
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
I have gone very far down the rabbit's hole with a dry sump system for the m97 in my Cayman. I am nearly done. Just a few details to work out. I can offer this as a kit for sale if anyone is interested. I will even include a template for where to mount the tank. I did this to have a more reliable DE car but I can sell a few kits to recover R&D costs.

Thanks
Keep us all informed of your progress. Good luck.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #19
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I thought about this for the 944 and again for the boxster. Dry sump kits for American V8 engines would be readily adaptable, they are serpentine belt driven and have a scavenge and pressure side pumps built in. An aluminum oil tank and AN fittings would make up the rest of the external parts, this could be looped through a cooler as well. Adapting the oil pickup and pressure feed back to the engine is the thing to work out. For a V8 you simply have a shortened pan with the pickup off the side, and a pressure feed that connects to the oil pump mounting boss. Side oilers you would drill the side of the case and plumb directly to the oil galley. In looking at the deep sump kits and the LN baffles it doesn't look too hard to do. I don't think an electric pump will keep up with both the pressure and volume demand of an engine, they work fine for gearboxes but that is a fraction of what an engine uses.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:45 PM   #20
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Perfecting the pan is the last thing I have to do.If everything goes as designed, then oiling should never again be an issue. The oil supply would be safe in high G corners.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:33 AM   #21
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We have spent the last few years developing our pan, sump and swirl pot modifications. We have investing a tremendous amount of time and money in this pan system to make sure does what is needed to save these engines. Our "rubber" baffles are made my the same manufacturer used by BMW on it's v-10 engines and the new Porsche DFI engines. These baffles seal against the sump far better that any metal flap. Our pan increases oil capacity by over 3 qts, controls oil movement even under the highest G loads and addresses oil aeration which is the root of all the failures. All of our ITC spec P2 Caymans run this pan as well as all of our new builds. Also there is no loss of ground clearance.
For more information or questions please visit our website www.bodymotion.com or call Mike or Geoff @ 732-493-2700 Email [email protected]

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:30 AM   #22
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None of these band aid pan/volume expander solutions have ever really worked as I understand it. It may be a motor design problem but I would rather put my 3.8 997.1 motor's fate in something proven in the racing industry.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #23
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Interested to see what you come up with. Are you keeping the factory pump? as scavenge or pressure side?

It would be a major deal if a GT3/turbo dual type scavenge pump could be retrofit to a M96 motor with the tank feed through the pan. All bets would be off. You'd sell a ton of those. All the baffles, extended sumps, windage and aos all solve issues to a particular degree which may be enough for certain uses, but true dry sump kills the problem dead.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:22 PM   #24
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Has anyone tired this version of the deep sump/windage tray? Similar to all the others that I've seen except the usage of two OEM 997 pickup tubes. Thoughts on this design/concept?

http://store.tunersmall.com/index.ph...S-2qt-deepsump

Edit...I just looked at the LN version again and saw in the text that they have the 997 pickup tubes included so scratch that as a new concept/idea. Nevertheless, has anyone tried this Tuner RS version? Looking at the windage tray compared to the LN version it doesn't have the same cutouts in the tray to accept the X51 baffle.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:37 PM   #25
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I can't imagine an external pump dry sump >$2,500.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
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I can't imagine an external pump dry sump >$2,500.
$1100 will get you the pump and basic kit. The real cost is in figuring out the pan/sump and drive belts...on the 944 it wasn't too much different than doing an accusump.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:54 PM   #27
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I made some progress today. I am certain that I figured out the oil pan and sump. It will be a custom pan designed to minimize ground clearance issues. It should be no lower than the various "deep sumps" on the market that pool more aerated oil into the pan.

These kits, no matter who makes it will not have any margin because the parts to assemble it and R&D costs are pretty high. If I sell the kits to anyone out there, then I would be looking to recover my cost into it. After that, I may not offer them anymore as someone or "shop" will just copy it, anyway. I do love Rennlist for it's loyalty, though.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J richard View Post
$1100 will get you the pump and basic kit. The real cost is in figuring out the pan/sump and drive belts...on the 944 it wasn't too much different than doing an accusump.

You are right about the pan and sump. I have solved the oil pickup part. I just need to get a couple of more measurements and get the pan done. It looks like a winner to me. I will be the test mule. Goal is to prove that there is no loss of oil pressure on the track! If all is well, then I can offer the kit per Rennlist rules. Should only be a couple of weeks more.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:35 AM   #29
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Sounds like a lot of progress going on. A few people seem to have had the same idea.

My personal requirements were longegivity for the Spec Boxster 2.5 motor and the same for the 987.1 Cayman S 3.4 M97.

After speaking with some experts the consensus is that for the M96 2.5 it is not stressed out very much and that an Accusump seems to cover the needs. The jury is out on a dry sump for the 2.5 since it can only help but it would only be worth it if really priced right. As for the higher horsepower M96/M97 engines they definitely would benefit from a dry sump along with other improvements.

With that said, data logging your oil pressure is a requirement from everyone so that you absolutely know if you are in the red zone and need a solution or not.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:27 AM   #30
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Quote:
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After speaking with some experts the consensus is that for the M96 2.5 it is not stressed out very much and that an Accusump seems to cover the needs.
That has not been my experience.
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