bobt993

Dan, I think you did the smart thing. He had an in-class battle going and you were better letting them hash it out with risky moves. If you had another GT4s car in your mirrors then that would be very different.

coinboy

But I have seen your axels.... They do have boat anchors around them! lol

Paul 996

I don't know if somewhere in the 3 pages of posts this was mentioned. If so, I apologize ahead of time.

A lot of the Cayman's are cross over cars from ITC to PCA. The Gen 1 Cayman S can make 300 rwhp max and is a P2 ITC car. The Gen 2 Cayman S makes 330 rhwp max and is a P1 ITC car. It is spelled out in the ITC rules. Both P1 and P2 ITC cars fit into PCA GTB1

A Gen 1 Cayman can be built to P1 configuration and will be making close to the 330rwhp.

Like for Like a PDK car will out run an identical non PDK car. That has been proven.

I have a Cayman S build underway and put it on hold as I researched switching to a Gen 2 car with PDK. I still like that in the non pdk cars you can completely disable the PSM but in a PDK car you need to retain PSM in order for the PDK to work in Sport+ mode. Ultimately the PDK is faster with some additional cooling challenges that seem to have been overcome but I am still on the fence over racing a car with PSM active. I think I'll take the manual 6speed and not have to fight the PSM all the time but double checking all the facts.

danielyonker

PAUL 996 - If you drive a PDK be forewarned that smart-asses like me will give you grief, call you a cheater, girly-man, etc.

good hands

PDK reminds me of that video of the Ferrari guy drinking coffee and reading the newspaper while driving on track. Anyone know where it is ? Claaaaaassic....

GearTie

Scott,

First of all, I can assure you that I am not drinking coffee in my PDK car! In fact, my left hand is downshifting the paddle like a butterfly. PDK does not always put you into the right gear at the right time...especially on a slow speed corner...which ends up making the car harder to rotate and increases brake wear. So, when the PDK Troll lets me have my way, the car is brilliant! When he's mad at me, I lose at least a second down the straights. Then there is the PSM interference that we can't get rid of...something the 6 sp cars don't have to deal with. I drove the last lap of the enduro at COTA in safe mode. However, I still love the car!!!

Anyways, here is some interesting data to consider for everyone involved in GTB1. Marco and Karl are really good drivers in well prepared 911 cars. Dan Clarke is a great driver and has a ton of seat time in these Caymans. I've also thrown in some other usual suspects

SEBRING GTB1 RACE RESULTS
Marco Cirone, ’06 911, 2:18:269 (track record!), 2/2/13, 37F morning, 73F day
Dan Clarke, ‘12 Cayman S 6sp, Pirelli slicks: 2:18:435, 2/2/13, 37F morning, 73F day
Karl Poeltl, ’02 911: 2:19:869, 2/3/12, 57F morning, 77F day
Dan Martinson, ’09 Cayman S PDK (open diff), Pirelli slicks: 2:20:651, 2/2/13, 37F morning, 73F day
Anthony Geraci, ’10 Cayman S Interseries, (Pirelli slicks), 2:20:738, 2/2/13, 37F morning, 73F day
Andrew Baxter, ’08 Cayman S 6sp (Hankook DOTs): 2:23:517, 2/2/13, 37F morning, 73F day


SEBRING NASA ITC RACE RESULTS
Dan Martinson, ’09 Cayman S PDK (with LSD), Hankook DOTs: 2:20:02, 4/28/13, 57F morning, 84F day (5pm 3 hour enduro race, this lap was on fresh tires and brakes in 1st half of race)
Dan Clarke, ’12 Cayman S 6sp (Hankook DOTs): 2:21:697, 4/27/13, 57F morning, 84F day (5pm 3 hour endure race, this lap was on 1.5 hour old tires and brakes
Andrew Baxter, ’08 Cayman S 6sp (Hankook DOTs): 2:23:273, 4/27/13, 57F morning, 84F day

ROAD ATLANTA GTB1 RACE RESULTS
Lucas Catania, ’09 Cayman S 6sp World Challenge Build (Pirelli slicks): 131:642, 3/23/13, 39F morning, 50F day
Bob Schneider, ’11 Cayman S 6sp Interseries (Pirelli Slicks), 1:35:066, 3/23/13, 39F morning, 50 day
Jack Baldwin, ’09 Cayman S 6sp Interseries (Pirelli Slicks), 1:33:503, 3/27/11, 44F morning, 48F day
Dan Martinson, ’09 Cayman S PDK (Hankook DOTs): 1:33:691, 3/09/13, 28F morning, 41F day (this was a NASA race)
Andrew Baxter, ’08 Cayman S 6sp (Hankook DOTs): 1:34:332, 3/09/13, 28F morning, 41F day (this was a NASA race)

COTA GTB1 RACE RESULTS
Dan Martinson, ’09 Cayman S PDK (Hankook DOTs): 2:23:239, 5/12/13, 60F morning, 83F day
Dan Clarke (Dan Martinson’s car), ’09 Cayman S PDK (Hankook DOTs): 2:24:176, 5/10/13, 60F morning, 83F day (scrub tires, 1st 5 total laps on track ever for Dan!!)
Bob Schneider, ’11 Cayman S 6sp Interseries (Pirelli Slicks): 2:27:733, 5/11/13, 60F morning, 83F day
Andrew Baxter, ’08 Cayman S 6sp (Hankook DOTs): 2:29:878, 5/11/13, 60F morning, 83F day


The only difference between an ITC Gen 2 Caymans (Dan Clarke, Dan Martinson) and the Gen 2 Interseries Caymans (Baldwin, Geraci, Schneider) is that the ITC Caymans have a cold air intake and headers. I’ve been told that this adds 10hp. Baxter’s Cayman is a Gen 1 car. However, there is a big difference between Lucas Catania’s car and all the other Caymans. It is built up to WC specs. All the Caymans at COTA were inspected by Walt…my car included. Catania couldn’t run the COTA race due to WC rules. So, his car has never been inspected.

If you read the GTB1 rules, in my opinion, the addition of a 3.8 throttle body and plenum should be legal….which you need to run competitively in World Challenge. However, when we built my car to GTB1 specs, we called Walt and he told us that it would not be legal. So, we just did the headers and air box.

The best racing I’ve had in the last two years has been between Caymans and 911s….and between 944S2s and 911s….in LARGE run groups. In my opinion, PCA should do everything possible to create parity in GTB1. In ITC, they decided to create 3 classes: P1 for Gen 2 cars, P2 for Gen 1 cars, and GTP for anything goes cars. Although this works, its only fun if you have a ton of cars in each class. Unfortunately, that is not the case yet. Nor would it be the case in PCA. So, lets make equal cars…right?...and have a really big run group.

However, you can see from the data and results that driver skill is a big component in all this. If you look at my times and Dan Clarke’s times in ITC vs other equal ITC cars, it is very clear. This is the same with Interseries cars…as shown above. So, what do we do? How about if we put Dan Clarke in each of these cars at the Road America PCA race and see what the results are. That would give PCA a good baseline to figure out what to do…right? Add weight to the PDK and Gen 2 cars, and horsepower to the Gen 1 cars. Not sure about the 911s..maybe take weight out or allow some horsepower increases?...maybe get some serious driver coaching ...That’s about all you can do right?

On another note, I discovered some interesting data comparing the Hankook DOT tires against the Pirelli Slicks. If you Google "Lucas Catania COTA" and watch his corner speeds throughout his lap in the WC race…and then compare them to my COTA video in the same corners, you will find that they are exactly the same speeds. He is running 275 Pirelli slicks up front and 305 Pirelli Slicks in the back. I am running 245 Hankook DOTs up front and 275 Hankook DOTs in the back. Why am I mentioning this?...because the Hankooks are half the price!!!

The following week, I went back to COTA and drove a Solstice in the WC event..on Pirelli slicks. The biggest difference that I found between the two tires was that the Hankooks really came off if you overdrove them…something I discovered the week before on practice day. However, if you stayed within their traction limits, they seemed to hold up as well as the Pirellis did.

Cheers!

Dan Martinson #109

mooty

i never knew racing was about fairness.
i race bikes for many many years.
it's talent and wallet size. nothing else really matters much.
i know tough pill to swallow... but it is what it is.