Sebring Turn 17
01-22-2013, 11:25 AM
#46
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Sorry, I'm fully booked at PBIR February 22-24, also fully booked at Sebring next week and February 28-March 3.
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-Peter Krause
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
01-22-2013, 01:41 PM
#48
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the great thing about T17 is that there are multiple ways to tackle it, multiple lines through it, and each has advantages & disadvantages.
01-22-2013, 03:39 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Wine Country Motorsports is now offering a track guide written by Shane Lewis of PBIR and veteran of many pro series. There are highly descriptive notes on the entire circuit, turn by turn. Those for T17 are at least twice as long as for any other turn. Also, the book has bar codes for every turn which take you to youtube videos of Shane driving the turn at a reasonable pace. One can watch them over and over and over ... I found it a good guide until the sun went down and most of my reference disappeared! Still ... 
01-22-2013, 04:12 PM
#51
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While the books are a great "blank canvas" to draw and take notes on, that's all they are. They're beautifully made and robust for long-term, in-the-trailer life, but there's no specific information. Not much more than a suggested starting point for line, led by the general corner-by-corner notes in the back.
It would be really cool to have included VERY specific landmarks, high-medium and low sight line suggestions, proximity-to-curbing references, walls, poles, PA speakers, signs, pavement patches or painted lines on course for reference.
I do like the QR code idea for easily update-able videos, but the videos aren't narrated. Also, as you pointed out, they are taken at a "gentle" pace (and only generally accurate car placement in the sample for T17).
I will recommend them for my clients to use as workbooks for our work together, but for someone already reasonably competent, I don't see a great value.
The bottom is the section on T17, starts out by saying "I want first to say that there is no perfect line through T17..."
01-22-2013, 04:19 PM
#52
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01-22-2013, 04:59 PM
#54
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Late to the party but a great discussion. Although you guys are aiming for that corner worker on entry, please don't hit her. She's just the sweetest old lady you can imagine. Doesn't know racing, but sure takes her job seriously, and wouldn't give it up for anything.
01-22-2013, 05:11 PM
#55
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She's a gem! She let's me join her on station and watch!
01-22-2013, 08:27 PM
#56
Drifting
She told me - you can always tell the fast drivers - they are through braking by the blue stripe (on the wall by skip barber) and on the gas by the white section before the bridge...
01-22-2013, 08:29 PM
#57
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01-22-2013, 11:42 PM
#59
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That's pretty early, for sure! 
What I am seeing most is people NOT "carrying speed in" because:
A) They're not sure at what point (how deep, how wide) they should be when they "cut in" torwards going under the drive-over bridge and
B) They don't have a tangent (relatively straight angle) that they're trying to make work between the point they leave the left edge of the road and the point they're trying to reach in A)
There is SO MUCH distance BEYOND the 400 marker that it is well in excess of what is required to get the car slowed down to a speed that it will make that "cut in" under the bridge. Look at the great photo above. If anything, it looks like to do the optimal geometry, that you should turn in LATER than the 2 marker that the data suggests.
Nearly everyone I work with leaves far too much on the table and could afford to go faster, longer going in and slow more quickly to a slightly slower point than they think, so the car car turn (rotate) quickly when you ask it to.
So they lose going into the braking zone, through the braking zone and, if they aren't careful, AFTER the braking zone. Three places to improve and we're not even under the bridge yet.
My most preferred sources for this information are my colleagues who have studied this place for decades, every day. 12-Hour winner Jim Pace, Bruce MacInnes, Terry Earwood and Divina Galica, all from Skip Barber, have made those calculations and freely share. Of the tens of thousands they've seen, they know what works and what doesn't. From my terabytes of video and data, so do I!
The most recent video Skip Barber has put up at universityofspeed.com/videos (IIRC) shows a few Sebring laps narrated by Terry. It's very, VERY worthwhile. Pay attention to his T3-T5, T15-T16 and T17. It's good.
I think the answers are there, you just need to know where to look and then through data and video, make sure you're doing what you think you are.
What I am seeing most is people NOT "carrying speed in" because:
A) They're not sure at what point (how deep, how wide) they should be when they "cut in" torwards going under the drive-over bridge and
B) They don't have a tangent (relatively straight angle) that they're trying to make work between the point they leave the left edge of the road and the point they're trying to reach in A)
There is SO MUCH distance BEYOND the 400 marker that it is well in excess of what is required to get the car slowed down to a speed that it will make that "cut in" under the bridge. Look at the great photo above. If anything, it looks like to do the optimal geometry, that you should turn in LATER than the 2 marker that the data suggests.
Nearly everyone I work with leaves far too much on the table and could afford to go faster, longer going in and slow more quickly to a slightly slower point than they think, so the car car turn (rotate) quickly when you ask it to.
So they lose going into the braking zone, through the braking zone and, if they aren't careful, AFTER the braking zone. Three places to improve and we're not even under the bridge yet.
My most preferred sources for this information are my colleagues who have studied this place for decades, every day. 12-Hour winner Jim Pace, Bruce MacInnes, Terry Earwood and Divina Galica, all from Skip Barber, have made those calculations and freely share. Of the tens of thousands they've seen, they know what works and what doesn't. From my terabytes of video and data, so do I!
The most recent video Skip Barber has put up at universityofspeed.com/videos (IIRC) shows a few Sebring laps narrated by Terry. It's very, VERY worthwhile. Pay attention to his T3-T5, T15-T16 and T17. It's good.
I think the answers are there, you just need to know where to look and then through data and video, make sure you're doing what you think you are.