Manifold

My wife has a Cayman as her DD which we share as a track car. The car is stock, and over the winter I'd like to do safety upgrades, while keeping the car legal and comfortable to drive on the street up to ~5 hours at a time (to get to/from tracks). I'd appreciate suggestions regarding the following questions:

- The stock seats don't accomodate harnesses, so we need to replace them with seats which accomodate harnesses and the standard 3-pt belts, and also accomodate our 9" height difference. For visibility on the street, I'm thinking no halos. Are there are any height-adjustable seats meeting these requirements? Any with an adjustable back recline, or is that a no-no from a safety standpoint? Are there any with side airbags, or is that undesirable? Do most of these seats at least slide forward and backward?

- I recall reading in another thread that 6-pt harnesses are much preferable over 5-pt. Correct? I assume we need a harness bar; is there a type which is removable without a trace, so that we can return the car to stock form if we eventually sell it?

- Is a roll bar a must? The Cayman is said to have a strong roof structure if it flips. And as with the harness bar, is there a roll bar which can be removed without a trace?

- Are we OK not having arm restraints? The car won't be raced.

- Since the car will be driven on the street with 3-pt belts, I assume that the steering wheel airbag should remain activated?

- We currently have a fire extinguisher mounted to the driver's seat with a BK bracket. Will we need a different bracket with the new seat?

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks!

Drew_K

Very smart of you to look into safety. My thoughts on some of the questions you raised:

You absolutely do not want to use harnesses without a roll bar. The roof on any car will not hold up well during a roll over, and you don't want your head held in place if the car flips and the roof collapses. A roll bar may be a challenge in a car like the Cayman without a back seat, although I'm sure it has been done.

6 pts harnesses are better than 5 points.

If you're able to properly install harnesses, I also highly recommend some type of head restraint device. I use a HANS, although there are others on the market now that are worth some research.

If you don't want to go the roll bar/harness route, there are bucket seats that will work with stock seat belts that will hold you in much better than the OEM reclining seats.

I don't think you need arm restraints, although they're cheap and, other than taking an extra minute to put on, I don't notice them at all when driving. They do provide a benefit for a car without a window net.

You may have already done this, but walk around the paddock at your next DE and see what others have done with Caymans.

Silver Rose

You are very smart to make safety your first concern, but be very carful putting a roll bar in a car you drive on the street. It can be more dangerous for you when you do not have a helmit on.
Many Caymans are DE'd with no major changes.
Once you make it a dedicated track car there is an intierly new discushion.
Forgive the spelling

mglobe

They don't have height adjustability, nor do they recline, but even with the height difference you are talking about, I've never really seen an issue with people using the Porsche Euro GT3 fixed back seats. They are by far the easiest to install, and they accommodate both three-point belts and harnesses. For a dual-use Porsche, they are a no-brainer choice in my opinion. DO NOT BUY CHEAP IMITATION SEATS!

- Unless you don't value your boys much, you want six-point belts. Google ruptured *******. Brey Krause makes a very nice harness truss that looks great, and goes in and out without any harm to the car.

- Don't know the answer to the roll bar question, though I suspect it can also be done without harming the car.

- Arm restraints are not typically used except in cabs that are run with their roof down. You don't need them.

- Yes, keep the airbag activated. However, be aware that you will be losing the side airbags that are built into your seats.

mhm993

Marc can better answer this as we are also thinking along these lines but I know a little.
- There is a popular bolt-in roll bar that can be removed for re-sale. The holes you need to drill are inconsequential. A harness bar is also ok but I am a fan of as much steel tubing as possible. A full cage is impractible for the street and the dash has to be cut to get it in.
- Check into GT3 seats. They are street-comfortable and can accomodate the correct harness configuration. But Drew is right in that you are safe in factory seats w/3-points.
- Drew is also right about harnesses in that the more points it secures to the safer it is supposed to be. I've seen Joe Marko (who supplies to all the pro race orgs) say that. You can get up to about 9 points but I can never figure out where they go!
- Consider that a man may be more comfortable in a 6 point but a woman may prefer a 5, even though there is a safety difference. Are we talking just DE? A little comfort goes a long way.
- I've also been told that 2" shoulder straps are just as safe as 3", and they are easier to get on top of a HANS, esp. the 1st gen HANS. Get a head and neck device. Period.
- Arm restraints are generally used in open cockpit cars in DE.
- Air bag is a good question. I sit very close to the wheel and when we had a stock steering wheel in the 993 my mechanic always suggested that he take it out. In some positions it can cause more damage than a crash. If there is an airbag in the car consider driving visor-down so the visor protects you.
Porsches are rather inherently safe on the track. If you 2 get really serious and end up as instructors and/or racers you most likely will not be driving your track car on the street.
Have fun!
-- Mindy

Drew_K

All good advice above. I'll add a seat suggestion. If they fit, the Adaptive Sport Seats in my 997.1 GT3 are a great compromise street/track seat. They have adjustable thigh and back bolsters, height adjustable, recline, and the main parts of the seat are Alcantara, which help to prevent sliding around. Much better than leather IMO. They even have adjustable lumbar.

A lot of GT3 owners replace their Adaptive seats with full race seats, so you may be able to find some for sale.

Dr.Bill

The GT2 seats will accommodate a harness and still have side airbags if that's important to you. They were standard in the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder and an option in other models. If you want to stay with OEM, the Euro GT3 seats are less expensive but don't have airbags. If you don't want or need airbags, consider one of the many aftermarket seats as well. As far as I know, none of the seats that can be used with harnesses are height adjustable without moving the mounting points. All will adjust front to back. Maybe two seat cushions of different thickness will help.

If you are planning on using a harness, I would add a roll bar. There are a couple nice ones that aren't hard to install and allow access to the engine bay.

I have GT2 seats and standard seat belts in my CR and it works fine. I'm also considering a roll bar and harnesses. With, of course, some head/neck device to complete the safety system.

Another thing to consider - the more you modify the car for track use, the worse it is as a DD. While I love the GT2 seats, some do not. Perhaps you should buy her a nice Cayenne for a DD. And then use it to tow the Cayman.

Bill Lehman

I run GT3 seats, 6 point harnesses with factory sub bar on GT3 seats, RSS harness bar. You do need to cut some holes in the plastic but easily replaceable. My harnesses are 3" but plan to swap out the shoulders to 2" due to chafing with my HANS.

Manifold

Thanks everyone for the info and suggestions. I've posted some follow-up things below, but first some more info on the car and its use:

- It's a Cayman R. The sport bucket seats were no-cost option (otherwise $4k more), but the dealer had already ordered the car with the standard sport seats. It's $7K to buy them new. I cry about this just about every day.

- The use is about 80% track (DE) and 20% street. But we still want to be able to drive it to tracks up to ~5 hours away rather than having to trailer it. Together, the wife and put the equivalent of about 70 track days on the car this past season.

So I'm a little unsure now about the roll bar for our use, though leaning towards doing it. Can hopefully mount it far enough behind the seat to be safe for street use.

Will go with 6 pt. Wife will have to deal with it, because I value my boys way too much!

Thanks, forgot to mention that. Is it reasonable to use the HANS without the harness? I see people doing that, but not sure if it's a different type of HANS for that purpose. And conversely, is it acceptable to use the harness without a HANS (eg, passenger in the car)?

2" straps sound like the way to go.

Will check into the GT3 seats, but any other brands worth considering? Recaro seems to have some nice ones. And I've heard that Cobra has seats with easily swapped bottom cushion, which provides some height adjustment.

The bolster on our OEM seats aren't too bad, but the looseness of the 3-pt is a weak link.

Will skip the arm restraints.

Sounds best to keep it activated, considering the street use. But will consider putting the visor down (wife currently does that, I don't).

You'll like this - I'm pretty sure you were my wife's instructor at the last MNY event! I instructed her myself this past weekend and was pleased with what I saw. I'll likely be instructing myself next season, and am looking to start racing next season or the one after, but in a dedicated race car.

May very well wind up towing at some point, and the Cayenne diesel is really nice. But instead of turning the Cayman into a pure track machine, I also lust at the prospect of getting a 997 GT3 at some point - that might be when the towing starts.