FYi to the guys who don't make it over to the 944 Spec boards - the discussion is going on here: http://www.944spec.org/944SPEC/forum...-2013-944-spec

16 pages of pretty civil discussion (and counting)!
Be sure to read the first page.

 

Gee ,that was a lot of reading! Good Luck, good idea.

 

Great idea and long overdue. I know a couple of good racers in PCA that don't want to race in NASA because of a couple cars in the socal group that are "highly developed" and felt that it goes against the spirit of the class. Maybe this will change their minds and get them into the fold.

An unintended consequence could be that everyone doesn't feel compelled to go out and find a 1988 motor to be competitive and the early low compression motors can compete again.

 

That is exactly the idea, and intent!

There will still be fast guys there, but at least it will be an even playing field.

It should be interesting next year with the RR's as well.

 

I think it's a great idea. Do it in 944 Cup as well.

 

944 Cup already has something similar. Their limits are higher, and vary based on the motor configuration. With only one "Spec" we have it a bit easier.

 

yeah, and it doesn't work. The only time they apply it it's at the Nationals. So you can cheat all season long.

Even the sealed DME regulation is not verified at standard events.

You need a dyno at every event. I wish PCA has one.


C.

 

We do have dynos at random events, as other classes (GTS, CMC, & others,) require it. In our case the rule was not to reign in cheating, but lower the cost of entry & competition. The HP we're seeing is made legally, but it costs money, more than we are comfortable with. The preamble of our rules has always said "...this is not an engine builders class..." It has come time to codify that.

 

No rule works unless drivers are willing to pay for enforcement, whether that be dyno, engine tear down, etc.

My experience has been that there are more drivers who want fairness checks than there are drivers who want to pay for them. Compromise often enters the picture to be practical, especially at the club race level.

The entry fees are no where near the level needed to make fairness as consistent as is demanded by those critical of the systems in place that attempt to level the playing field.

As PCA has not bought into the use of dynos as a fairness check, don't see the new HP limits for 944 Spec having any measurable impact on SP1.

 

At Nationals, we did tear down the top 2 motors. Competitors were responsible to tear down, and put back back together their own motors. Tech inspectors verified parts (down to cam specs, and oil pan off inspection of lower end). No cost to the series, or sanctioning body directly attributable to the teardown other than scrutineers time to look at the parts once out. The top 2 had enough winnings to justify taking the expense of doing this, but had no choice except forfeit in any case. Obviously this is not practical on a regional level, outside of extreme circumstances, though.

These rules would still apply in Sp1, though enforcement would be hard. In general, at the level of development of Sp1 cars I've seen, would not cause them to fall out on this rule in any case.

 

I would not race in a class that had a tear down rule where the competitor had to pay the expense of putting his motor back together even if his motor was found to be legal. That's just bogus....

Scott

 

In a National Championship setting, with thousands of dollars on the line, it is expected. If someone protests you, that's very different. You should see Spec Miata teardowns at Nationals! Heck, I tore my own motor down the last two years, and had to have it back together 4 days later for a 3 hour endurance race.

That said, with a dyno rule in place, we hope to be able to avoid this degree of teardowns - we can look for outliers on the dyno.

 

I don't really care if it is a National Championship setting or a backyard event. This is still club racing. The only time a racer should have their motor torn down is if the legality of it is being challenged. Whomever is challenging the legality, whether an individual or the racing organization, should have to pay the costs associated with the tear down and reassembly if the motor is found to be legal.

Maybe it is inexpensive to tear down and reassemble a 944 motor. But that is not the case with all motors.

Scott

 

Last season, no one got checked for the sealed DME at any of the Canada events. And since there's no dyno, people kept doing their thing.

The DME sealing thing is a good idea, if everybody respect it and there is a dyno to check the guys. It works fine at the Nationals, it should be the same for the other races.

C.

 

In the case of HP limits for PCA SP1, "enforcement would be hard" equates to "it won't happen". As pointed by others here on this subject, without a dyno there is no enforcement of HP limits making such a rule useless. PCA will not use Dynos.