JoshuaB

This is the schedule I put together for the Florida Crown Region. Our Red and Black run groups have the PCA extended passing rules (full course passing with a point by) and we put instructors in either run group based on their student assignment.

Based on the run group order in the schedule, if an instructor has a green run group student they are placed in the red run group so they always have a session between their own run group and their students run group. If they have a blue student they are placed in the black run group for the same reason.

The White run group starts the day off, which gives time on Saturday for instructors to chat with their student and don’t have to hustle to get their own first run session in.

The scheudle is Excel, if you (or anyone) would like a copy to use just let me know...

car_slave

You sound very fair. Here’s a time allotment breakdown from the last club I ran with. I never added this up before and I'm actually a little pissed. It’s not like I pay any less.

Beginner 80min
Novice 80min
Inter 90min
Advanced 100min
Instructors 130min

GuyIncognito

unfortunately I'm serious...if I've seen 10 cars heavily crash at a PCA DE, 8 of them have been in the instructor group.

you hit at my real issue though...you should want to be an instructor b/c you want to see people become better drivers; unfortunately I've seen rather a few become instructors so they get the run group privileges. entitlement society strikes again, I guess...

GuyIncognito

that's interesting, I've never seen a DE with track time that lopsided.

and in my opinion a DE (Driver's Education) event should flip that around and give the most track time to beginners and the least amount of time to those who can make the most out of it.

car_slave

Sad thing is that the final 30min instructor session is mostly empty.

bobt993

^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't follow your logic. While I try and spend my funds racing I still try to support events as an instructor and combined some coaching. I always anticipate that the novice driver is overwhelmed and tired by the 3rd session. Giving more track time to beginner drivers is inviting mental mistakes which seem to follow during their solo driving time they are awarded after some good instructing in the morning. I assume your a veteran racer so I am surprised you are making such a generalization about the caliber of instructors that show up to events. The skill level may vary, but in general most instructors are putting in some good effort to pay back their own developement.

GuyIncognito

I've seen a huge spread in instructor ability, some really good and some really bad. I've had multiple NASA/SCCA champion instructors, and I had one instructor who told me he "had" to drive my GT3 to "show me some things", but he couldn't verbally express those things to me standing in the paddock

anyway you do have a point re: beginners and mental mistakes, I think good debriefs and reinforcement of fundamentals could minimize those. my point was that if it's truly an educational experience you would want those with the least experience to get the most out of the weekend.

Upstate101

If you have access to a skid pad, maybe have a session or two for novice/beginners there to free up track time.

car_slave

I din't think that adding an extra five minutes to two sessions in the middle of the day is going to hurt anyone. Most guys leave before the last run.

GuyIncognito

I've seen some DE programs do that and/or autocross before hitting the track, I think it's a great idea.

jcs_911

You may want to check with PCA and see if that is legit. I don't think that was their intent to have multiple extended passing run groups in one event. ?? PCA defines 5 run groups, with one called Instructor.

From www.pca.org
Expanded Passing Program: The Event Chairman may choose to implement the expanded passing program. With expanded passing, passing may occur on all portions of the track, including all turns. If expanded passing is allowed at an event, it shall follow these restrictions:
• Expanded passing will ONLY be run in the Instructors run group which may include non-instructors.

JoshuaB

Thanks I am very familiar with the minimum standards, expecially #19...

We run 2 instructor run groups because we all ways have more instructors than the maximum allowable cars on track for a single run group.

Jimbo951

FalconDriver, maybe you can post one of your current schedules. 4 groups with (3) 30 minute sessions is only a total of 6 hours of track usage. Seems like you're wasting or losing a lot of time somewhere.

jcs_911

And PCA and the insurance carrier gave it the thumbs up? Cool.

stuttgart46

Congrats on your new position. I was the DE Registrar for Suncoast for 2001-2003. Great group of people over there.