mklaskin

I suppose the definition of athlete is open to interpretation, but I stand by my statement that the top drivers should be considered top athletes.

wanna911

I agree with WINDERS.........

135 lbs? LOL, that's like calf raising less than your body weight with one foot with lots of rest in between. And it's not calf isolation either, probably 50% calf if that.

IMO Elite athletes can do stuff ordinary people cannot do (no matter how hard they train), so no it's not elite, it's like WINDERS said, conditioning and training, but many many people with enough training could do that. Now in terms of the concentration and focus aspect to put laps together, I think that is altogether separate. Which makes them elite drivers, but not athletes. Of which P90x is no criteria.

No matter how hard most people in the world train they won't have a 40+" vertical or run a 4.2 40 or mile under 4:00 or do anything that much less than 1% of the population can do.

mklaskin

That article has overly simplified the efforts required, in order to appeal to a broader audience.

Some people are fortunate enough to be born with great natural athleticism, others do work at it. Likewise, judging one's athletic ability off of 40 times or vertical leap is too narrow. Walter Payton, undoubtedly one of the greatest ever, had the 40 times, the vertical leap, and excellent conditioning. Yet when he tried to race, he was never able to convert one skill set to another.

wanna911

Elitism is not limited to speed and jumping ability. Walter Payton had elite strength and muscle endurance which is why he was a dominant running back. Emmit Smith was the same way, really strong and really quick. And then there is overall athletic ability of which there is no argument that they are elite. Not to mention even a 4.5-4.6 is the top tier of athletic ability which would still make them elite especially if power/weight is considered.

Plus Walter Payton had insane burst. He was still a 4.4 guy, just not an open field/track runner. At his weight size, strength and speed, he is a bad example. Emmit ran really slow 40's but his lateral agility and reflexes were out of this world.

I think there are some elite athletes that are race drivers, needing to be an elite athlete to be a race driver as if it is somehow a prerequisite is borderline comical though.

multi21

So if you run marathons are you considered an elite athlete? Anyone can run, and if trained, anyone could run a marathon, right?

By definition an athlete's performance is tied to the use of one's body. Elite meaning the top category. If hand eye coordination, stamina, endurance etc. are required, would that not be considered an athlete?

Is a baseball player an athlete or someone who has a skill set? How about golfers?

What about the sprinters who were/had Olympic level speed and tried to go to the NFL as wide receivers, but didn't pan out because they could only run straight and could not cut or run patterns effectively enough to made a team. They were "World Class" in running, but couldn't run a pattern???

Lotsa debate open on this subject....

jdistefa

There's general athleticism and then there's sport specific neuromuscular 'athletic' skills.

And then there's...
fitness
vision
focus/attention
cognition/tactics
motivation

Lotsa stuff

mklaskin

My original comment was that the drivers at the top of their chosen discipline are, and should be considered, elite athletes. Mark Webber, Jenson Button, Tony Kanaan, Jimmy Johnson (yes, I'm quite serious), as well as several of the top endurance drivers are elite athletes.

jdistefa

^ agree

being athletic isn't about looking 'fit' (i.e. Tony Stewart) and a lot of aerobically/anaerobically fit people aren't athletes

Mahler9th

Interesting thread. I was a college athlete and got to meet and work out with olympic athletes in my sport. Not too long ago, I did a pretty extensive research project that involved elite athletes, trainers and doctors. It was interesting. This included experts in the area of fitness training for racing. This included the leaders of the Gatorade Sport Science Institute, which is a serious research place.

Years ago, I also got to meet and visit with Walter Payton as an imprompyu guest of Payton-Coyne at Laguna back in the CART days. I was invited "in" by Charlie Nearburg, as (thankfully) he recognized and acknowledged the Dartmouth tee shirt I intentionally wore to the event. They were off the pace runnin' Lola cars. As I recal, WP had a football with him most of the time. I told him I was a Packer fan but he was cool with it... I think he ate at my aunt's famous soul food restaurant in CHI from time to time so that helped.

In recent years, I have struggled to recall the essence of some sports medicine research at McGill I heard about back in the day. Maybe in one of the racing mags that is no longer around. Like On Track. Remember that?

Anyway, just today I think I found the path to read about this research... I may go looking around here to see what studies have been undertaken/published:

http://www.performanceprime.com/aboutus.htm

I am sure it will be interesting.

Mahler9th

Ahh, here is some GRIST:

http://www.performanceprime.com/ayrt...2-jun-1991.htm

Mahler9th

And a moldy oldie:

ftp://rohan.sdsu.edu/pub/mml/stuff_t...e-training.txt

Mahler9th

And finally, you never know where study leads:

http://www.personagrip.com/Motorsports/Motorsports.html

wanna911

Agreed on debate, I do not think running a marathon makes you elite. Winning our being top tier is though. Those guys run at Sprint pace for hours. Their VO2 is crazy. They are near the height of elitism to me.

They run only 1.5 to 2 minutes slower per mile than the top mile relay teams of the fastest guys in the world sprinting all out for one lap each. And less than aminute slower than the mile world record while running 26 of them.Their weight to power ratio is outstanding.