J richard

Forces are forces, physics are physics. They are all fruit. Directly applicable? Absolutely.

gums

No question in my mind that IndyCar used to be much more exciting than it is now and I really don't like the new look; the cars are distinctive but the fact that they are all the same takes a lot away, I really don't like a spec series at such a high level, they look stupid. And they're numbed down so now we have drivers we've never heard of qualifying for Indy. The Foyt/Andretti/Unser/Mears of the world were true hero figures, there's none of that now.
Still, I always watch the 500 because my favorite part of Memorial weekend is when Jim Nabors sings "Back Home in Indiana".

winders

The 500's decline in popularity has more to do with the split between CART and Indy (Tony George) than anything else. That severely damaged the relationship with the fans and they lost a lot of them. Many never came back. The race lost its shine, so to speak, because of this.

Scott

gums

^^no question about it^^

winders

The argument was that horsepower should not be limited for safety reasons and drag racing and land speed record attempts were used as example where horsepower (and speed) is not limited.

Now you are arguing something else. The problem with unlimited horsepower is the speed that comes with it. Deceleration forces and impact damage are the cause of injuries. Even you build a bubble that eliminates impact damage, how do you reduce the g forces enough? You just don't have the space is a reasonably size race car to build a something to mitigate those forces.

Scott

Mike in Chi

The CART and Tony George split was a train wreck you could see approaching from ten miles down the track.

There used to be so much fun innovation there... Smokey Yunick (sp?), Granatelli's Turbine, the Novis, Colin Chapman bringing about the extinction of the Dinosaur that was the Roadster. And the build-up to the event did command headlines for nearly a month.

gums

The only good thing in IndyCar of late was when they ran at the Glen.

J richard

Scott,

No same argument, and I think you'd agree:

1. Indie is limiting speed via horsepower due to safety.
2. Restricting speed reduces the impetus to revolutionarily improve safety as opposed to evolutionarily improve the status quo.
3. Taking the lid off but still mandating safety will open up creative solutions or integrating approaches from other interdisciplines.

IMHO there should be arenas where there are no limits, and both the risk and reward are very high. That's the nature of sport at the limit. Indie used to be that, it's why it was special. But it has become a nannied down spec series and lost it's flame. Additionally the current addage of let's limit speed and we will be safe has proven to be a failed exercise, and tends to lead to complacency...

Just saying...

winders

Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

You are wrong on points 2 and 3. You can't possibly reduce the deceleration g-forces enough to prevent injury in the small package a race car provides. That physics...not lack of innovation.

Scott

J richard

No worries...

But the point is you CAN deal with it just not within the current configuration...it would be a different approach altogether...that's the nature of innovation.

Peace out...

winders

How much bigger would the vehicles need to be? I can't give you a number but I would guess at least 50% wider and longer. Not practical since you would have to dig up all the existing race tracks and build new ones....

Scott

Carrera51

I miss the days when John Menard would bring out 4-5 Buick pushrod V6 Turbos out to pole day. And let us not forget when The Captain showed up in 1994 with the MB209 Mercedes/Ilmor pushrod V8 and dominated. You had Reynard, Penske, Swift, Lola (I am sure I am missing someone) building chassis, along with engines from Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Chevy-Ilmor, Buick, Cosworth. The 80s and 90s, up to the split were great. They have multiple engine suppliers, so I would love to see another chassis builder come in. And play with the engine rules to make it interesting.

J richard

Scott

This is taking this thread way off topic, but some examples are the next time you get on an airline your butt is in an articulated seat designed to tak a 29g crash with no injury to the occupant, we currently bolt the seat hard to the chassis. There are designs for energy absorptive bathtubs for apache helicopters are rated at 50g and the have to be bulletproof and extremely light. Other strategies are mounting the seat within a portion of the cage that tis viscously connected to the perimeter cage to absorb the impact. Airbags are integrated into the harnesses in light aircraft and helicopters. There are plenty of examples all out of the box of how things are currently done, as ugly as it is many of these were the reasons behind the delta wing development. But then there are basic questions of if the car could stop and handle exponentially better you could avoid the impact all together, someone already mentioned the turbine vacuum car, what was that 1972? And it worked so well it was outlawed?. Or articulated surfaces on the top of the car that would provide drag and downforce in conjunction with the brakes to stop the car instantly...

But there is no need to think about any of this, just slow the cars down, put on some skinny tires and make sure they can't turn too fast and you're perfectly safe....zzzzzzzzzz.....

winders

50g's is nothing......it's the 100g and up crashes I am worried about. For grins, figure out what the g forces one would sustain in a crash at 200 MPH into a wall at a 65 degree angle.

Scott

mglobe

Question to contemplate: Would higher speeds make for better racing? I will argue no. Does it really matter if the cars are going 220 or 250? Both are pretty damn fast. What matters to me is that I'm seeing racing. Folks taking calculated risks to beat the other driver. Strategy, driving skills, and most of all, passing.

Innovation and diversity in car design is a separate issue. One that I would like to see improved on. But at the end of the day, I want to see racing, and not high speed parade laps.