Sean F

You should be focused on west bend and the downhill

It does seem strange that you would have understeer in the uphill. Do you have understeer in the lefthander or exit of big bend?

ProCoach

Only to the extent of how long you are at or around vMin at those two points.

Statistics show more time is lost in the braking zone and transition into and through Big Bend, approach and managing the speed adjustment into and through the Left Hander and making sure you're in the right place and at the right speed to go onto No Name with the least throttle moderation and delay.

Having begun my career at Lime Rock, managed to win many races and time trials there, taught for Skip Barber there and progressed through five decades of cars (from 1:25 to :53 flat), the priorities of going fast at that track do not change.

Trust me. Work on the slower speed stuff first...

bobt993

^^^^^^
This is so true. I have looked at data for racers at Summit and Tbolt and they are so focused on being more brave in areas where they are already really good, but tossing a ton of time in the slow speed lower risk corners. The end result is they usually cannot get that last second out of a lap and end up driving slower or beating up the car.

ProCoach

Unfortunately, the culture supports the mistaken concentration on the really fast stuff when people could harvest SO much more time doing the slower stuff well.

I'd love to share privately what I've seen at T3, the Chute and Turn 10 at Summit, or Turns 4 and 12 at Tbolt when people really need to concentrate on doing T5-6-7-8 better at Summit and T5, T9-10 at Tbolt! Hah! We could drink a LOT of beer swapping those stories.

ZSA Motorsport

Statistically, it is obvious that you want to spend more time improving the areas of the track where you spend the most amount of time. while every turn is important, long slow turns where multiple seconds go by are more valueable to focus on than fast sections where you're in and out in a blink.

id imagine you're chewing up 1/4 of the lap time from the entry of big bend1 to the entry to no name. you do that well you saves seconds vs a poor effort. you do the uphill well, you save a 1/4 second, 1/2second compared to a poor effort.

on the other hand, if you do a poor job in the left hander, you snap around maybe or lose a little time. you do a poor job on the uphill, you might be headed to the body shop or hospital.

ProCoach

Granted, I'm driving a purpose-built, twenty-eight year old, 140-bhp, non-aero (no wings, dive planes and a flat bottom) two-seater sports racing car on 6" front, 8" rear width tires on slicks, but the RATIOS in speeds should be the same for vMin throughout the track to yours and to Paul's.

Min Corner Speeds (53.3 lap)

Big Bend 78
Lefthander 70
Esses (vMin at right onto No Name) 81
Uphill 100 (same at crest, too)
West Bend 98 (I'm a *****, seen too many friends crash there)
Downhill 115 (121 approach)

So 38D, you are on the money (if I am...).

ProCoach

+1,000! Unfortunately, not so obvious to many folks...

I'm spending 18 seconds (on a 53.5 second lap), 1/3 the total lap, point-to-point, from the entry (building of maximum latG) of Big Bend to exit (ebbing of maximum latG) of the Esses onto No Name. Wow...

ZSA Motorsport

https://vimeo.com/28236949

here's a vid of 2011 pca race. 2005 boxster. 3.2l G class car. this set G class record, 2 class wins. car has minimal aero downforce and usually suffers a good amount of oversteer. between Deman Motorsports knowledge of the car, adn Heinlein Racing's prep of the car for the event, we were pretty dialed in.
about 90mph on the uphill. i try to avoid breaking too hard or downshifting ; and its a complete leap of faith. i turn in with power and stay in the throttle, the hill catches and compresses the car and it bites good. if it doesnt i might breathe lightly off the throttle, but ever so lightly. and always force the unwind at the top. because the car is often bound up, you get a rear wiggle that will unnerve you if you arent anticipating it. anticipate it.

https://vimeo.com/41253127

here is my effort in the 2012 race. Gen2 997 Cup, GTC5. GTC5 track record, P2 overall in the race due to some regulatory attrition<G>, etc. though Baron's 4.0L Rolex car was the monster that weekend. the GTC5 car has no where near the aero downforce of the 09 CUp S rolex body work. the car is probably faster on high speed tracks like mosport or daytona, but on a track like limerock where downforce is at a premium and overall top speeds are just not that extreme, downforce is the key. check out lap 1 and the lack of downforce. thats the first time i had major air in the car like that. later we significantly slowed rebound to keeep that nose more planted. it was better, but the best car on the weekend was Baron's. I had video from him on the uphill and he came up that thing throttle down full and the car was flat, stayed down, stayed on power. the other difficult part with that car on the uphill is that we can add downforce in the rear, but because its a stock non-adjustable splitter, no venturi, etc. i the front, we cant add in the front. adding too much in the rear will help rear grip but upset the balance we found to be fastest.
id have given up the .2 liters for an RSR wing, and big front splitter and wide front cup S nose on that track.... daytona, no. taht track yes.

https://vimeo.com/41253127

that track is also so rhythmetic, that you have to look up as far as possible to connect the dots. true anywhere. but on that track with a bunch of turns all compressed within 53 seconds, you have to keep your eyes way up the track. especially on the uphill.

go get a great coach for the day. he'll help you with your driving and that uphill and will ensure the car is also setup right. if you're hitting the bump stops in that car on entry, that could be catastrophic when you really start hauling into the uphill entry. do not befriend guardrails.

ProCoach

Beautiful!

38D

Thanks! (And 53.3....nice!)

The below comparison might shows how these single data points can be misleading. The min speeds in my 964 cup were slower in most cases than spg's boxster with the exception of the big bend and the downhill, yet the time was 2 tenths faster. What you really need to see is a data overlay to compare how aggressives the braking and throttle application is.

This also shows what I already knew: I'm fast in all the corners where I haven't crashed

ZSA Motorsport

lets presume most people on the straights are all flat out, whether a boxster, a 964 cup, or a miata....torque and horsepower win races. thats the issue with the boxster when it runs against other brand. it excels in its ability to roll into a turn. but its got no pop coming out. my world challenge camaro at NJMP is about the same laptime as my Gen2 997 Cup and the GTA2 lap record despite being down some 60,70hp and being 700 lbs? heavier....thing has torque curve that is out the wazoo. it doesnt have nearly the cornering speed, but that 6.2l LS3 motor just rips out of each of those slow turns.

thts kind of the fun thing of it all, accentuating the positives of your car,coping with the downsides. i gave up the boxster as a race car , in some part for the very reason you point out. it was a great handlng car, but it just had no bite. at daytona, homestead, VIR, long straights, MOsport...it was great. but at limerock, NJMP, etc. it just doesnt have the gitty up.

Sean F

If he is at 85 at the apex of the downhill, he needs to work on West Bend and the Downhill (either in technique or setup). When someone needs to find 3-5 seconds, I have always found from the right seat there is lots of work to do in those two areas. I don't disagree about the slow stuff, but often find that harder for folks to get to than entry speed and throttle point in West Bend and Downhill and they're almost never doing what they think they're doing. Data would be helpful, though.

ProCoach

I hear you! The next question with data is what is the vMax between West Bend and Diving Turn? If its not much higher than 85, there's the first issue.

It's ALWAYS better to fully commit to throttle out of the uphill and west bend and then have to brake (or perform a "speed adjustment") for west bend or diving turn than to just pick a speed and cruise along...

You are absolutely right about the disconnect between what we think we're doing and what actually happened. The mind is a powerful thing!

Sean F

One additional thought for the OP. What line are you running through the Uphill. I have seen cars understeer there when people take the very late entry DE line trying to run up the middle of the track when cresting the hill. Too much/abrupt steering angle. The entry for a fast line is actually pretty early and shallow.

ProCoach

True dat!